9/11 what really happened?

Originally Posted by akbarhussain

I don't really think that a career in politics would do me or anyone any good.

If you look currently at anyone that disagrees with government concencus, they are either:

a) corrupted to bring them into line

b) sidelined, so that their opiniojn is no longer heard by the public

or at worst

c) given an early bath, so to speak. RIP Dr. David Kelly.

I don't really see any way out of our current situation.

Oohh David Kelly, don't get me started.

Thats a bit defeatist, stand up for your rights and all that.

[Balky001]

Objective = Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices.

Oh Akbar, do me a favour. When was the last time you looked at US policy thinking hmm, I think this might be reasonable?

Originally Posted by Balky001

Objective = Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices.

Oh Akbar, do me a favour. When was the last time you looked at US policy thinking hmm, I think this might be reasonable?

Thanks Balky...... but I have a perfectly decent copy of the Oxford English on my desk next to me, and am fully aware of the definition of the word.

And to use your example, it is very rare that I see anything in US foreign policy that I like, or am not cynical of. But that doesn't tell me how I am un-objective.

[Balky001]

Originally Posted by akbarhussain

Thanks Balky...... but I have a perfectly decent copy of the Oxford English on my desk next to me, and am fully aware of the definition of the word.

And to use your example, it is very rare that I see anything in US foreign policy that I like, or am not cynical of. But that doesn't tell me how I am un-objective.

Akbar - if you want me to expand ....

You say you are cynical (of US policy). Now look that up in your dictionary and see if that fits in with being objective. Just in case you only have a small dictionary here's a couple of definitions of a cynic from mine -

A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.
A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative.

I'm not sure a cynic can be truely objective.

Originally Posted by Balky001

Akbar - if you want me to expand ....

You say you are cynical (of US policy). Now look that up in your dictionary and see if that fits in with being objective. Just in case you only have a small dictionary here's a couple of definitions of a cynic from mine -

A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.
A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative.

I'm not sure a cynic can be truely objective.

Seriously now, you are either intentionally misquoting me or just not reading very carefully. Which makes you look a bit silly really when you start using the rolling eyes smilie. To quote my statement

And to use your example, it is very rare that I see anything in US foreign policy that I like, or am not cynical of. But that doesn't tell me how I am un-objective.

I didn't say I was cynical or had a dislike for before looking at US foreign policy - simply that there are very few things that I like or am not cynical of. That is, after objectively looking at it.

For example, the US very regularly donates aid to people in the world that are less well of than they are - this, I am quite often cynical of - simply because time and time again, they tend to give aid when anfd to whom it suits. That does not make me cynical of US foreign Policy in general though.

So in fact, I would say that it is you that is not being objective - you seem to be making sweeping statements over my views without really inderstanding them. SO if you can, please tell me how I am not objective when it comes to US foreign policy?

Originally Posted by M.Ockx

Personally though, I still think that it would have been far better for Europe to have done a deal with Stalin or Hitler - it would have stopped America in its tracks in 1943, and saved a lot of countries from being invaded.

Can I suggest before you post you actually check out your facts first?

In case it escaped you, we had an alliance with Stalin from '41-'45. While that alliance was one of wartime necessity it was still there. And the fact is in reality it was a triumvirate of powers with the triumvirs being the UK, the Soviet Union and the USA.

And like the triumvirates of Caesar and Caesar Augustus when he was still known as Octavian, the balance of power was such that no one triumvir could strike out at any other without destroying the triumvirate and all that they were aiming for. The triumvirate worked because each of the triumvirs backed the others.

As for the last bit about the countries the US has invaded. I think you'll find the Nazis are still up on that count having invaded pretty much most of Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East.

As for my opinion, I think you are extremely misguided to believe an alliance with the Nazis would have worked, been good for this country or not implicated us in the level of attrocities that they carried out.

But if you truly believe that, I wonder if you have the courage to say it to the veterans on the Rememberance day parades to their faces. I suspect you wouldnt have, though if you want to prove me wrong Ill happily witness it. :P

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by DanDare

Calm down Spider dude, I was simply asking the question, not accussing him of anything, I was just asking his stance on it. I just thought a few comments pointed toward that and justy clarifying it.

Trust me fella, I'm calm.
Sorry if my post came across anything other than that. But i just have a big dislike for these constant Anti-somethingorother words that run around like they mean anything.

Me? I'm anti Bush. I'll happily admit that. Why am I? Simply, cos he's just so stupid that it bothers me about the mentality of anyone who would vote for him. His policies arent his own as he has no political knowledge to be able to formulate anyhting worthwhile in that arena. His so called advisors (read neo con war mongers if you will) have their own agenda and its easy to sell to someone who thinks he hears gods voice telling him right from wrong.

No clown, thats not gods voice, its your defence secretay hiding behind the oval office curtains whispering instructions at you.

Like i said before, if anyone else was to say "I hear gods voice and he directs me to do this" and the "this" involved killing, they'd be sectioned and locked up quicker than a quick thing on a really quick bike.

But when you are the leader of the US armies its apparently a sign of your piousness or nobility of attitude.

The guys a dummy. When he came into office there was the famous interview where he didnt even know the name of the Pakisani president. A man who was on the brink of a war with his neighbour India and had plenty of nukes at his disposal too. You'd think that would be part of the basic hazard perception test to be Prez wouldnt you? Knowing the names of the leaders of other countries.

Originally Posted by lynw

As for the last bit about the countries the US has invaded. I think you'll find the Nazis are still up on that count having invaded pretty much most of Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East.

Wow! I didn't know that! In my efforts to support Spiderman and Akbarhussain, I was so SURE that they had implied that America had been doing all the invading for the last 100 years or so - as part of a well-known plan to rule the world. So, the Germans nearly ruled the world then....was that the same sort of plan as America...and who stopped them from succeeding?

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Like i said before, if anyone else was to say "I hear gods voice and he directs me to do this" and the "this" involved killing, they'd be sectioned and locked up quicker than a quick thing on a really quick bike.

Oops! Doesn't Osama say that his God ("Allah") directs him to do things? But then, I think we could all accept that HIS God is better than GWB's.

[northwind]

Oh dear. Have you fallen for "You're either for us or against us"? It's possibly to criticise GWB without being an Osama Bin Laden cheerleader you know.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by M.Ockx

Oops! Doesn't Osama say that his God ("Allah") directs him to do things? But then, I think we could all accept that HIS God is better than GWB's.

Just cos i knock bush please dont think that i have any leanings towards the other crazy camp either. the point i was making was just that, anyone who cliams to be led by any god to kill and destroy other lands and people is someone i'm scared of.
Yet bizzarely millions of people on all sides of the world follow them and vote for them.

Clearly a case of loonies not just running the asylum , but most of the world.