Won't start the first time but second try is normally goods

[QUOTE=


No it doesn't. Have you seen inside of an SV motor?[/QUOTE]

I'll stand corrected then, i didnt realise they were different to others

[yorkie_chris]

Right what you have is a starter motor permanantly meshed with a set of reduction gears, this then goes to a flywheel concentric with the alternator rotor. This has a bushing in the middle of it fed by oil from the crank allowing it to spin freely with respect to the crank. Bolted to the back side of the alternator rotor is a drum with 20-odd (iirc) cams in it (sprags). these grip the starter 'flywheel' one way, but allow it to spin freely the other way. This is a sprag clutch. I can post some pictures of it if it would be helpful.

the other way to do it is via a bendix type drive which uses the turning force of the starter motor to shoot the gear forward and mesh with the teeth on the flywheel. 'prillas (I think) and cagiva 2 strokes (certainly) use this setup.
With this you hear the audible 'ping' as the starter motor side gear whacks into the flywheel.

The other other way is to use an electrical solenoid to do the same job, cars use this. In many cars the solenoid here does the other job of allowing electrical current to flow to the starter itself. This is quite elegant as the starter is often not turning until the gears are almost fully meshed with the flywheel.

[fastdruid]

Originally Posted by s7uyj

They have a solenoid that as you turn the starter motor it pushes the gear on the starter into the the gear on the engine, then when released it retracts back away from the engine to allow it to spin without causing damage, so nearly right with the clutch thing!

You are thinking of cars.

Bikes use a 'sprag' clutch which is an arrangement of rollers, ramps and springs that can spin freely one way but not the other, the starter is permanently engaged with a gear on this clutch which in turn is on the end (typically) of the crank.

The solenoid on a bike while called that is actually just a heavy duty relay.

Druid

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Right what you have is a starter motor permanantly meshed with a set of reduction gears, this then goes to a flywheel concentric with the alternator rotor. This has a bushing in the middle of it fed by oil from the crank allowing it to spin freely with respect to the crank. Bolted to the back side of the alternator rotor is a drum with 20-odd (iirc) cams in it (sprags). these grip the starter 'flywheel' one way, but allow it to spin freely the other way. This is a sprag clutch. I can post some pictures of it if it would be helpful.

the other way to do it is via a bendix type drive which uses the turning force of the starter motor to shoot the gear forward and mesh with the teeth on the flywheel. 'prillas (I think) and cagiva 2 strokes (certainly) use this setup.
With this you hear the audible 'ping' as the starter motor side gear whacks into the flywheel.

The other other way is to use an electrical solenoid to do the same job, cars use this. In many cars the solenoid here does the other job of allowing electrical current to flow to the starter itself. This is quite elegant as the starter is often not turning until the gears are almost fully meshed with the flywheel.

Thanks YC. Pics would be a usefull addition, but I understand

i stand corrected and informed! cheers for that, will definatley help if i have any issues in the future!

[embee]

Can we be absolutely sure here? Where does the original poster live? US terminology can lead to confusion in the UK sometimes, in US parlance the term "turning over" very often means "starting", not what we (UK) usually refer to as turning over as in "cranking".

Does the engine rotate with the starter motor and not fire up, or does it not rotate at all with the starter motor?

Being an '02 on carbs there will be the issue of fuel evaporation when left on "hot soak", requiring the carbs to be refilled, which of course needs the engine to be turning in order for the fuel pump to work.

We are getting to the time of year when fuel may be beginning to change from summer to intermediate blend, prior to going to a full winter spec (northern hemisphere), this tends to ba a regional thing. If the change is a little early and it's still warm weather you can get more vapour/evap type issues cropping up sometimes.

Originally Posted by embee

Can we be absolutely sure here? Where does the original poster live? US terminology can lead to confusion in the UK sometimes, in US parlance the term "turning over" very often means "starting", not what we (UK) usually refer to as turning over as in "cranking".

Well to add to the confusion I'm Irish but living in the US. By turning over I mean the engine cranking.

Originally Posted by embee

Does the engine rotate with the starter motor and not fire up, or does it not rotate at all with the starter motor?

The start sounds as normally but the engine never seem to crank or attempt too.

Originally Posted by embee

Being an '02 on carbs there will be the issue of fuel evaporation when left on "hot soak", requiring the carbs to be refilled, which of course needs the engine to be turning in order for the fuel pump to work.

We are getting to the time of year when fuel may be beginning to change from summer to intermediate blend, prior to going to a full winter spec (northern hemisphere), this tends to ba a regional thing. If the change is a little early and it's still warm weather you can get more vapour/evap type issues cropping up sometimes.

This could have something to do with it the gas stations here I believe are starting to switch over. But I live in Arizona so even though it's coming into winter it doesn't really get cold, cold or damper. It started last night and this morning first time. But I'm going to check the solenoid and starter connections to ensure they're clean any.