Soldier,soldier.

[northwind]

Originally Posted by grh1904

As much as it pains me to say this, our cousins in the good ole US of A do get it right when it comes to their attitude towards veterans.

Veterans they meet in the street, yes. Veterans with less limbs than they had before they went out are almost completely forgotten. And there's quite a few of those now. The US stopped releasing injury figures, they prevent news teams visiting the hospitals, in some cases they stopped relatives and friends visiting the wards- the guys were being moved to meeting rooms like prisoners, so that the visitors wouldn't see how many people were left in the same boat. Terrible stuff really.

But then, we pretty much do that too, the treatment for injured vets is often pretty ropey here.

Originally Posted by northwind

Veterans they meet in the street, yes. Veterans with less limbs than they had before they went out are almost completely forgotten. And there's quite a few of those now. The US stopped releasing injury figures, they prevent news teams visiting the hospitals, in some cases they stopped relatives and friends visiting the wards- the guys were being moved to meeting rooms like prisoners, so that the visitors wouldn't see how many people were left in the same boat. Terrible stuff really.

But then, we pretty much do that too, the treatment for injured vets is often pretty ropey here.

Didn't realise that, I'm only going by what i see on the news, and that is that the USA appear to be more veteran friendly than over here, with dedicated hospitals, and rehabilitation centres who specialise in amputees etc.

It seems as if our lads/lasses are to told that as "reward" for their service they get to join one of our NHS waiting lists (you know the ones that get shorter every year and are now so short that you get your operation a whole year before you even knew there was something wrong !!!!!).

Originally Posted by Razor

Oh yeah alcohol is a drug, but they sell that to soldiers cheap...

I was about to ask about that too. Do you guys tolerate them drinking? It is after all a drug.

Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy

I was about to ask about that too. Do you guys tolerate them drinking? It is after all a drug.

Alcohol has always played a part in forces life, starting way back when men "press-ganged" in when they found the Kings shilling in the bottom of their glass of beer and went off to sea.

More recently alcohol has been used as a way of releaving stress. I got to speak to some Battle of Britain pilots, and a good stiff drink helped them sleep, even if it was alcohol induced, and then get up and fly the next day.

the ones I spoke to said that if it wasn't the nightmares of seeing a mate shot down, it was the thought of being shot down yourself, so you got sozzled to help you sleep.

I'ts not right, but I suppose the saying horses for courses or whatever it is comes to mind here.

I noticed in the US that forces charities and forces families are not afraid to shout. And a generally more sympathetic public is readier to listen. So, injuries, compensation, pensions etc are much more prominent than here.

Just look at what happens when a soldier is killed in Afghanistan. It makes the BBC news website for a day. Then 2 or 3 days later, his name is released. And that's it. Nobody wants to know - but somewhere, a family is torn apart. And what happens when someone is injured? - well, nothing. We rarely hear, but if anything the suffering must be even worse, as at least with a death you can have a funeral and move on. We don't want to know, it seems to me that for the general public it's a matter of supreme indifference. And then friend Brown pops up and glad hands soldiers, all for TV, to show how much he cares. Oh yeah, of course he does. I honestly don't think that forces welfare is high on his list of priorities.

I think that this shabby treatment is part of the problem.

[northwind]

Originally Posted by grh1904

Didn't realise that, I'm only going by what i see on the news, and that is that the USA appear to be more veteran friendly than over here, with dedicated hospitals, and rehabilitation centres who specialise in amputees etc.

That's certainly true- not least because there's a **** of a lot more of them. It's more the way the numbers are concealed, and it's kept out of the public eye and the press. There's a lot bit of hearsay in this, it comes through an american friend whose ex is in one after losing a leg at the hip and the other foot, so it's not exactly impartial... but apparently the new units that are being built are basically concealed, no signposting, no local awareness, the idea being to basically hide the casualties.

Local doctors working there are under confidentiality agreements so they're not allowed to discuss any part of the work- but of course, they're doctors so they already have medical confidentiality, so mainly what they're not allowed to discuss is numbers. The argument is that they're not allowed to discuss deployments, but that's hardly a secret, you can google a unit and find out where they are. And whenever family or friends visit, they don't visit the wards- the guys get moved to visitor's rooms, just like prison, and they're under orders not to discuss the size of the hospital, they're not even supposed to mention other inmates. And remember they're still soldiers, and totally dependant on the support they get, so most of them keep schtum.

Injured gulf vets have been discouraged from attending homecoming ceremonies, veteran parades etc- he was supposed to be attending along with a group of others but at the last minute the transport was called off, for instance, other times they're simply told no transport is available. He couldn't get to the base when the rest of his unit came home, and none of them were told where he was. Others have turned up and been turned away. Again, like a prison. They do get great medical treatment it seems- though there's not enough therapists and technicians for prosthetics, that's simply because there's literally not enough- but they're not just forgotten by the public, they're hidden.

Or, at least, this is my belief, it's not exactly hard fact you understand. I think the overall treatment our guys get medically is inferior, but at least people know they exist.

[Biker Biggles]

Great potential for the old alcohol double standard to creep in here.Booze is ok and has always been part of military life,but drugs?How terrible,must be dealt with bla bla.
Absolute cr&p.
Drugs have also been part of military life throughout history,with archeologists finding cannabis in ancient Greek trireems,Zulus using hallucinogenics to fight the British,and amphetamines used widely in both world wars to get the troops going.I recall recently hearing of the Brits experimenting with a new drug that would enable troops to stay awake fighting for several days at a time.
What this nonsense is really all about is power.Technology has developed enough to test people to find out what they have been doing in private over the last few days or weeks,and the control freaks that run all our institutions cannot resist the temptation to use this to control peoples lives.What a soldier does in private should be his business as long as he turns up for work when he should and can do his job.End of story.If not,it wont be long before the rest of us are subject to exactly the same regime.Why shouldnt we be if its ok to treat soldiers like that?

The Afgans smoke dope while on patrol with us!!

As a serving member i dont think it is right to take them and i dont knowing the concequences. but i can understand why some of the lads are doing it while back on leave. to relax etc. But i still maintain you only get caught if you are stupid or want to!! its too easy, dont do drugs before you go back from leve.

Like i said i bet a lot of the increase is from young lads wanting to get caught and get an easy way out rather than go back to fight in Iraq or Afgan again.

[TEC]

Originally Posted by Ed

Besides, what is the financial cost of kicking out people who are otherwise perfectly good members of their unit?

The financial bit would have been taken into consideration but ....

Originally Posted by BigApe

.... All of those service men and women that have been caught taking drugs knew that if they were caught they would lose their jobs.

I suspect that quite a few caught knew full well what they were doing

Not really in agreement with the statement of taking drugs because of PTSD. I was diagnosed with this on my return from the 1st Gulf conflict. I can assure you, this is well catered for. Anyone suffering PTSD would not be in a position to still serve AND be using drugs. You are monitored to much.

It is as I have said before, because young soldiers are now of a different calibre than of old. They socialise just the same as everyone else. Drugs are common place and seen as a recreational thing to do. In the 'old days' servicemen and women didn't associate with civilians. It just didn't happen. Now it does.