Sarkozy speaking sense?

Originally Posted by Warthog

...Let everyone wear what they like, worship who they like, say what they like so long as it isn't harmful...

Thats kind of what i was trying to get across

[ophic]

Originally Posted by Warthog

It is basically fear and insecurity on their own parts I'd imagine.

and not religious doctrine at all? like not eating pork, for example? can't see how that's affected by fear or insecurity, but they still all obey it.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by Warthog

I think he is wrong I'm afraid. Being in a free country is all about being free to dress and say how you please so long as it doesn't offend anyone else.

Playing devils advocate on this point for a mo.... who needs to be offended for this to count?
There were instances of people being takn off planes for wearing T-shirts that said Bush & Blair - War Criminals and the such. Now one person disagrees with that and complains. Isnt this now infringing on this persons freedom of speech and/or freedon of expression?

If i was to say that all burka wearers offend me as i see it as abusive does that mean my say is more important than their right to religious expression?

I can see both sides of the story. However, I personally feel intimidated by the women wearing the Burkas because if one of them was to speak to me, Id have no idea what they were saying. I rely heavily on facial expressions and lip-reading - so to only be able to see someones eyes just makes me feel really uneasy.

I guess their only solution would be to walk around with a bunch of smiley cards :and display the one appropiate to their facial expression*

*BTW, im not making a joke out of a serious issue before anyone gets offended at my comment

I read in a book once that hair is a 'fetish' for pretty much all people, hence why Muslims cover it and Jews shave it. *shrugs*

I see both sides of the story, but to be honest I support Sarko's stance on this.

Basically, if you want to live in our country, you live by our customs. You're free to do whatever you like in your own home and have your own places of worship, but out in public, our way.

If you think this is unfair, feel free to go back to your country of origin and live that way instead. And while you're there, note that WE respect YOUR customs enough to dress YOUR WAY when we're in YOUR country. Indeed, if we don't, quite often we get severely punished and attacked for breaking your rules!

No, I'm not in the BNP.

Originally Posted by metalangel

Basically, if you want to live in our country, you live by our customs. You're free to do whatever you like in your own home and have your own places of worship, but out in public, our way.

If you think this is unfair, feel free to go back to your country of origin and live that way instead. And while you're there, note that WE respect YOUR customs enough to dress YOUR WAY when we're in YOUR country. Indeed, if we don't, quite often we get severely punished and attacked for breaking your rules!

yup I agree with this 100%

[Spiderman]

Yeh i agree with that too. However the UK allows for freedom of religious expression and even tho its technically a "chhurch of england" state it really isn't as it has no customs that visitors are expected to observe.
Should we have, or is the freedom to express your religious views more important?

Originally Posted by Spiderman

My personal problem with the burka is the insinuation that all men are rapists, since the reasoning given is that women should not show their faces/bodies to men as they wont be able to control themselves and the womans face an hair should only be seen by their husbands and male family members.

My understanding is that the burka is not a religious but a cultural requirement.

[ophic]

Originally Posted by Samurai Penguin

My understanding is that the burka is not a religious but a cultural requirement.

very hard to separate the two when the religions, governments and culture are often all pretty much the same thing.

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Yeh i agree with that too. However the UK allows for freedom of religious expression and even tho its technically a "chhurch of england" state it really isn't as it has no customs that visitors are expected to observe.
Should we have, or is the freedom to express your religious views more important?

Well if you consider Christmas Day - all the "little" shops dont remain shut anymore, loads of them are open. (I dont know if this is the case in other areas but it is certainly true where I live).