Taller Profile Tyres....120/70

Originally Posted by jonboy

Oh please. Let's not even pretend that the SV was built around a 120/60.


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So are you saying Mr Suzuki designed his bike then thought ... humm what tyre shall I put on it??? Ahhhh ... I got some 60s out the back they’ll do …. Or ahhhhhh Dunslip have a discount on 60s …. I’ll get a joblot of them?!!?!!! I don’t think so ….

No, he would have known from the off what tyres he was going to use and designed the geometry compromise around that!! :P

Please note the use of the word ‘Compromise’! Like I said, for track purposes I can see a desire for deviation from this compromise. You must realize that by doing so you will be sacrificing something else … presumably straight line stability in this case?? Also you will be raising the front changing the trail …

edit:- looks like 21Quest got there before me

[21QUEST]

Originally Posted by Stu

Taking this further - why stray from Dunlop D220's

Nothing particularly wrong with the D220's.

Why change?
Rider not smooth ie cack handed , need to exceed the capability of a certain tyre, confidence? Non of that makes the crap. I know you didn't say that

Cheers
Ben

Bobit - glad the bike feels alot better. It could also be down to the forks/oil that was done at the same time - if i have the right person!. That would definatly make the difference your feeling alongside the taller profile tyre.

Who mentioned the Dunlops....mmm what can i say about them...if your fairly spirited rider...i wouldnt recommend staying on them...thats being polite

[21QUEST]

Originally Posted by SV650Racer

Who mentioned the Dunlops....mmm what can i say about them...if your fairly spirited rider...i wouldnt recommend staying on them...thats being polite

I probably did

That's the operative word innit . Exceed the limits of the tyre and you will crash as with any tyre. Great if a tyre gives you loads more confidence but if that confidence doesn't translate in you being faster or more spirited , is it a waste? IMO not necessarily but ......

Trust me I'm slow but I come across riders on the latest stickydoos everyday and I'm on MEZ wotsits the SV first came out on and I do okay.

I bet you a pound you'll do a faster lap of any circuit than I could even if I were on Diablo Corsas and you on Stradas.
Personally I'll go right , she's doing more than alright so lets see if I can just about do alright but that's just me.


Cheers
Ben

ps: If the Dunlops etc tyres go in the bin I'll dispose off them at no cost to you. Heck, I'll put a fiver in the the Kitty :P

[northwind]

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

In a few words:- Why second guess Mr Suzuki???

I’d say unless you have a specific application (track use where you are happy to compromise stability for corner grip/turning in) why stray from what Mr Suzuki spent all that money designing the bike around??

Mr Suzuki had a purpose in mind when he designed the SV. Not everyone has the same goal in mind when they get one. My front tyres, frotn end, suspension geometry and components, ride height at both ends, kerb weight, final drive ratios, cam profiles, induction, filtering and exhaust, not to mention every element of the front brakes have all been "second guessed". Are you going to say it'd be better if I'd stayed standard? Cheaper, for sure, and more sensible, but leaving price aside I'd honestly say that there's not one part of my changes that doesn't represent an improvement. If they didn't, I'd change them back.

Originally Posted by northwind

Mr Suzuki had a purpose in mind when he designed the SV. Not everyone has the same goal in mind when they get one. My front tyres, frotn end, suspension geometry and components, ride height at both ends, kerb weight, final drive ratios, cam profiles, induction, filtering and exhaust, not to mention every element of the front brakes have all been "second guessed". Are you going to say it'd be better if I'd stayed standard? Cheaper, for sure, and more sensible, but leaving price aside I'd honestly say that there's not one part of my changes that doesn't represent an improvement. If they didn't, I'd change them back.

No, what I am saying is that unless you want to specifically change something (as you did) why feck about with what Mr Suzuki has done for you??

Mr Suzuki when he designed the SV presumably was trying to make something that was practical, cheap and a little fun. we all know in stock form the SV is/does just that. He was not making a sports bike. If you want to have something that rides like a sports bike then you need to throw most of the stuff away and start again … better still go buy one of his GSXR’s!!!

Ok, I use my road bike solely for commuting, this is largely through town. When I first got the bike it had a 60 on it, like I said I use 2nd hand rubber, so put the 70 on when I changed it. I personally think the 70 profile makes the front ‘fall in’ too much when going slowly, I end up having to pull the bars back and compensate. I can live with this, but like I said before, if I was to buy new, I’d go for the 60 as that would presumably be/was better at low speed/slow manoeuvring, I have no need for max lean - max corner speed on my commuter!!!

I’d not run a 60 on my track bike mind, coz I want everything I don’t want/need from my road bike and I never intend to be riding it slow enough to get the downsides.

People can and will do what thy like, but there is a tendency to try and make bikes like race bikes … a true race bike would be horrid to ride on the road!!!

[21QUEST]

I wonder.

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

........
. I personally think the 70 profile makes the front ‘fall in’ too much when going slowly, I end up having to pull the bars back and compensate....... !!!

I find those comments very interesting in a sort of way. Lights the bouncy bits fuse in my head

I'll explain. Thing is 120/70 should slow the steering down(trail) an dthis falls in line with my experience as I've already outlined. Now F_Squirrell did say he felt the steering was quicker without having changed anything and IIRC we sort of agreed to didagree on that point.

So are we now probably seeing riding style coming into play or is the feeling you got be described more accurately as of flopping into corners?(sort of like a squared off tyre would do. That would make some sense with regards to my earlier comments about loosing some nuetral feeing would it not. No?

Of course all the above don't mean a thing if one doesn't feel the difference. Comments anyone? and it may even turn to be quite a nice discussion


Cheers
Ben

ps: We'll assuum everyone is right .

Plus of course the profile of the actual tyre used will make a big difference, as a BT020 will be somewhat different to an 014 etc.


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Originally Posted by 21QUEST

I wonder.
.........
I find those comments very interesting in a sort of way. Lights the bouncy bits fuse in my head

I'll explain. Thing is 120/70 should slow the steering down(trail) an dthis falls in line with my experience as I've already outlined. Now F_Squirrell did say he felt the steering was quicker without having changed anything and IIRC we sort of agreed to didagree on that point.

So are we now probably seeing riding style coming into play or is the feeling you got be described more accurately as of flopping into corners?(sort of like a squared off tyre would do. That would make some sense with regards to my earlier comments about loosing some nuetral feeing would it not. No?

Of course all the above don't mean a thing if one doesn't feel the difference. Comments anyone? and it may even turn to be quite a nice discussion


Cheers
Ben

ps: We'll assuum everyone is right .

I am talking slow speed in particular here, perhaps <20mph the sort of speed where you need to use a fair amount of lock to actually make the bike turn. I feel I am fighting the steering a little, its just not as pleasant as it could be. I attribute this to the tyre profile.

And Johnboy is right; each tyre will be different … my tyres are Supercorsas for reference.

[21QUEST]

Originally Posted by jonboy

Plus of course the profile of the actual tyre used will make a big difference, as a BT020 will be somewhat different to an 014 etc.
.

Absolutely and combine that to the perceived and it all becomes a bit cloudy. Actually looking back I think SS put it qute well

Originally Posted by Sid Squid

Different better, different worse or just errr...different - actually I'm really not sure.

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

I am talking slow speed in particular here, perhaps <20mph the sort of speed where you need to use a fair amount of lock to actually make the bike turn. I feel I am fighting the steering a little, its just not as pleasant as it could be. I attribute this to the tyre profile.

I'll say you would be right to. Probably more initial effort and once it starts turning falls in as a result of steeper tyre maybe and you have to fight to maintain a certain balance. The 120/60 is a more linear roll.

Unfortunately can get an article which looks at how low and higher profile tyres. It goes on to explains/describes the how they may impact on the overall feel and turning characteristics in combination with changing trail from a base line trail figure. Sort of arbitrary but helps give one a better understanding of what might be the cause of the what you are feeling.
It's on old computer that crashed but will see if I get lucky with a google search.




Cheers
Ben