Check fully after an off

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by wyrdness

I normally use 100% front brake (& engine braking) until I'm under 5mph and then use a touch of rear. If I'm emergency braking then I'll use some rear as well.

Thats what I do to.

Originally Posted by Nikkih

Passed my test last week and this was the advice i was given also. When doing the CBT last year, the instructor got on the bike and slammed the front brake on to show us that you can grab the front brake as hard as you want and wont go over the top.

thats even scarier than some of the other stuff.
almost anybike is capable of locking up if you grab too much front brake,
i expect that a cg125 wont, but then that doesnt really count.

a bike wont travel far on a locked front without falling over, a front brake will lock if pulled on too fast,and if your on something loose then going over the top would be the least of our worries,

i think everyone should know the limits of there brakes, a lot of riders would be surprised by the power of there brakes and just how much stopping power they actually have.

i think its appalling that some instructors advise against using the front unless its an emergency, and they do !!!, a friend of mine, as advised on here DAS never touches her front brake and shes on a zx636!!!!!!!, here husban was advised the same , but hes a more natural rider and does what the bike needs, shes almost run into the back of me several times, as a result of not being able to brake fast enough, she tootles everywhere..........

i think saying that its 75% this and 50% that is a bit misleading, you can feel how your brakes are working and what theyre doing to the balance of the bike, and you should be able to adjust your input accordingly, a friend has a RSVR , and the back brake on that is practically useless, where does the 75/25 thing go with that bike?

myself i use far more back brake on the zrx than i ever did on the SV, it was practically unused on the sv because of the engine braking, but i find myself using it a lot on the IL4, especially in traffic, when i want to adjust speed a little but not load the front, do i use the back brake more than instructors recommend? i dunno, maybe, but it works for me and im very much in control and can predict what my input will do.

just feel it , dont be stuck by what your instructor, or some random internet buddy has told you.

I'd love to know what is going on here. Most everyone (and especially politicians - apart from the "ban 'em all" brigade) agree that improved training is the key to reducing motorcycle accidents. If that training is blatantly wrong then increased training is actively causing more accidents and should be addressed with much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

My (hopeful) suspicion is that a lot of this is down to mis-interpretation - instructors should be ensuring that trainees don't grab a handful of front brake (or back really) whilst cranked over and perhaps this is instilling an undue sense of fear of the front in any circumstances.

Anyone got a copy of the DSA motorcycle books - eg. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Official-Mot...9838232&sr=8-5 - because if instructors are actually giving advice like "front is for emergencies only" then these people really need to be stopped from training as soon as possible. I really don't care if they preach 70/30 or 90/10 or anything really, so long as they demonstrate that braking should be really done in a straight line, and depending on conditions, the front should always be given significant dominance.

I remember my CBT instuctor years back did just that - they went along at 30mph, and stopped using only the back, then only the front, then both. The difference between front only and both had to be exaggerated a little as he wanted us to get used to using both brakes rather than never bothering with the back.

almost anybike is capable of locking up if you grab too much front brake,
i expect that a cg125 wont, but then that doesnt really count.


Obviously, but the point I was trying to make was the instructor was showing us how hard you can pull on the brakes without going AOT, as the genral feeling of learners is that if you hit the front brakes with any amount of force you will go over, and that it actally takes quite a lot for it to happen.

The other learner i was with was a keen cyclist and was petrified of the front brake, and he did it to show her not to be scared of it.

[KnightRider]

Originally Posted by Bear

Now, is it me or is this complete toss? No offence Jon, you're just doing what you're told, but you should be using 70/30 AT ALL SPEEDS! Yes there is a small chance of a front wheel lock, which isn't pleasant, but your back brake simply will not stop you quick enough! I would question the instructor about this. It may well be that he has a valid reason for it, and if so fair play, but it seems completely wrong to me. The front brake has two discs rather than one and a lot more power than the rear, so why not use it?

Ask the instructor next time you see him and post the result here so we can discuss further.

Cheers and good luck with the lessons!

Interesting reaction to my post regarding using the rear brake only below 10 mph. Thought this was standard teaching so am now a little worried!

I cannot completely answer the question as this is something that I was told by my instructor (in fact by all instructors for the school I used) and not something that I do as a result of my own experience. I will therefore just tell you the reasons the instructors gave me for using the rear brake below 10 mph - note I was told to use both brakes at all speeds during an emergancy stop.

1 - rear brake is much better at controlling the bike whilst manovering slowly eg up to junctions/roundabouts, around slow corners ect.

2 - the front brake can be a little harsh at slow speed and when stopping it has a tendancy to make the front of the bike dive when you come to a stop - especially if you are cruising upto a junction at a consistent 5-10 mph and then have to reapply the brake to bring yourself to a stop.

3 - when approaching junctions/roundabouts, if you use your rear brake then your right hand is all prepared to accelerate if an opportunity comes up for you to continue out without stopping

4 - most importantly - the majority of your braking should have been complete before you arrive at the juntion so that you are moving onto it in a controlled mannor.

I was also told to use the rear brake to control the bike when doing my U-turn. Is this correct as far as everyone else knows?

Originally Posted by jonwestuk

1 - rear brake is much better at controlling the bike whilst manovering slowly eg up to junctions/roundabouts, around slow corners ect.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "much better" but, probably a bit less vicious. That said, you get a much better feel through your fingers than your toes, so can judge what's happening better with front brake.

Originally Posted by jonwestuk

2 - the front brake can be a little harsh at slow speed and when stopping it has a tendancy to make the front of the bike dive when you come to a stop - especially if you are cruising upto a junction at a consistent 5-10 mph and then have to reapply the brake to bring yourself to a stop.

Yeah, can be a little harsh, but practice and all that, plus the better feel through fingers mentioned above.

Originally Posted by jonwestuk

3 - when approaching junctions/roundabouts, if you use your rear brake then your right hand is all prepared to accelerate if an opportunity comes up for you to continue out without stopping

It's quite easy to be in a position to operate both front brake and throttle at the same time - eg. blipping on downchanges whilst braking. SV (and others) has a span adjustable brake lever if you need. Front brake much more powerful, so my counter-argument would be that with the front covered you're also in a better position to slam on the anchors should something nasty happen at the junction - and junctions are where a lot of nasty things happen.

Originally Posted by jonwestuk

4 - most importantly - the majority of your braking should have been complete before you arrive at the juntion so that you are moving onto it in a controlled mannor.

I'd agree with this, only add that if you're practiced in using the front brake then it becomes second nature should you need to really use it in anger.

Originally Posted by jonwestuk

I was also told to use the rear brake to control the bike when doing my U-turn. Is this correct as far as everyone else knows?

I think this is probably sage advice, sure you could use the front, but the back is going to be easier.

Can I just add, give the bike the once over after you get it back from the garage following an off - Colin Colins returned mine with an almost flat battery and loose wheel nut. Neither of these were obvious when looking over for repairs to crash damage or on first start-up.

I think the idea that you shouldn't use the rear brake under 10mph has probably come from advice that when manouevring the bike under 10mph the rear brake is smoothest - I don't have a problem with that.
The idea that when slowing from higher speed that once you're under 10mph you should switch to using the rear brake is just ridiculous. As to the front brake making the front dive at low speeds - just learn to ease off the brakes properly when you're about to stop - just like you do in a car. Some deeply worrying stories in this thread!

[KnightRider]

Could it be that the instuctors are telling me to drive in a certain way so that I appear more experienced and controlled than I actually am. These could all be things that make riding a bike as a newbie smoother, but you then quickly leave behind when you actually start riding in the real world- a bit like some of the things that I was told to do when starting to drive a car.

Overall so long as both brakes are used for scrubbing the majority of the speed off I am hoping that this will not cause me any major problems. I should also note that the examiner on my last test didnt find any fault in my braking or control (except for that rather big error of putting the foot down on the U-turn )