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Originally Posted by Baph

I expect that you'd actually return phone calls from clients though, rather than (at least seemingly) ignore them. I mean, during the whole process (which is never quick for anyone), I don't remember them EVER calling us, or sending a letter in reply to a query of ours. All questions had to be asked whilst in their office, or they didn't get an answer at all.

An eye for an arm & 2 legs really. If the client thinks you're not doing the job, they either pitch up the game & make you work for it, or get someone else to do the job.

I'd put money on it that you're just the same deep down

Yes I do return calls but when we're busy it might take till the next day. I had a client call me this afternoon - he said 'I've been trying to talk to you for 3 or 4 days' I said 'yes, we spoke yesterday afternoon'. Fact is that you can only do one thing at a time. It's not fair not to return calls etc though. As re an eye for an arm and 2 legs, well for transactions between £120K and £250K we charge £450 + VAT. We don't charge extra for acting for a lender, and I don't charge for filling in the SDLT1 either. I've heard that some firms charge as much as £75 for this.

Originally Posted by Ed

Yes I do return calls but when we're busy it might take till the next day. I had a client call me this afternoon - he said 'I've been trying to talk to you for 3 or 4 days' I said 'yes, we spoke yesterday afternoon'. Fact is that you can only do one thing at a time. It's not fair not to return calls etc though. As re an eye for an arm and 2 legs, well for transactions between £120K and £250K we charge £450 + VAT. We don't charge extra for acting for a lender, and I don't charge for filling in the SDLT1 either. I've heard that some firms charge as much as £75 for this.

My house falls neatly into that banding, and we paid the solicitor just short of £1k in fees. From memory, that's fee's to them, not expenses that they had to pay out.

I can live with waiting a couple of days for an answer to a question (for example, I ask you a question that you don't know the answer to, so ask the seller's solicitor, who asks the seller, then information has to feed back). Especially when the process takes months. I wasn't exaggerating when I said they didn't call/write, unless it was absolutely required for the sale to progress.

having bought and sold in both Scotland and England. I can say that the scottish system is so much better and easier and less stressful. selling in england was a nightmare. buyers offering and changing their mind weeks later. couple that bought eventually were scottish. contracts signed on thursday at 8 pm and I had to be out monday lunch time. had a whole house to pack by myself with only a 5 year old and 18 month old to help. moved up here and paper work signed 8 weeks before moving in date.

[tigersaw]

Originally Posted by Steve H

It gets worse. The latest announcement is for HIPs to be introduced from the 1st August for houses with 4 or more bedrooms.
If you ever wanted proof that this Government is 'as mad as a box of frogs',
this will be it.
Im absolutely astonished at the ridiculousness of this proposal.

Agreed, totally barking. having just bought a 400k house, I felt the expense of a full survey was justified. Even that did not pick up the electrical and drainage faults, thankfully minor.
I dread to think what value a quick shuftie and light bulb count would have been to me - just extra expense for the vendor.
It would probably be of more value to purchasers of first time properties to save expense, but even then only so long as it had some clout.

The HIP is certainly worth getting...you wouldn't buy a second-hand car without an MOT would you?

Originally Posted by Jdubya

The HIP is certainly worth getting...you wouldn't buy a second-hand car without an MOT would you?

No but it does not prove that the vehicle is roadworthy.

I don't see the similarity at all.

The government is on the run, another stupid idea, they refused to listen to the RICS, they have ignored The Law Society for many years over legal aid, personal injury litigation, miners' compensation, all sorts of things so why should HIPs be any different. Ruth Kelly has today found out that it pays to listen and has had to eat humble pie. As for starting with 4 bed houses, it's crass. Why not start with 1 and 2 bed houses where generally speaking buyers have less £££ to spend and so energy efficiency actually means something?

I really didn't think the Govt could make things any worse, but they have done precisely that.

I'll reserve judgement until I've read the full report in the next few days.

I still believe that it is a good thing. Anything that cuts out time-wasters and makes a positive impact on the natural and built environment can only be a good thing. I think there are too many people out there going on hear-say and putting HIP's down without looking at the facts first. As far as RICS are concerned, they themselve are training up DEA's and HI's yet with the same breath are trying to force these people out of the market.

The system of HIP's itself has been used in the states and in parts of europe for years now and has been proven to reduce the money and time wasted in the home buying/selling process.

Originally Posted by Ed

No but it does not prove that the vehicle is roadworthy.

I don't see the similarity at all.

The government is on the run, another stupid idea, they refused to listen to the RICS, they have ignored The Law Society for many years over legal aid, personal injury litigation, miners' compensation, all sorts of things so why should HIPs be any different. Ruth Kelly has today found out that it pays to listen and has had to eat humble pie. As for starting with 4 bed houses, it's crass. Why not start with 1 and 2 bed houses where generally speaking buyers have less £££ to spend and so energy efficiency actually means something?

I really didn't think the Govt could make things any worse, but they have done precisely that.

Absolutely correct. I have been involved in property law for more than 20 years and feel that I am more qualified than Ruth Kelly on this subject!

The intention was sound but half baked so yipee for a delay, maybe it will flounder some more and give time for a decent system to come in. Something is needed though even if just to prevent Friday afternoon chaos of chasing building approvals ( people doing unauthorised work or never getting them properly completed) and so on and believe me there are many, many of those which very often end up with a seller or purchaser in tears on the other end of the phone.

The focus is too much on sustainability, though undoubtedly very important, rather than the property in general being fit for purpose and accordingly value for money. lets face it new houses by major developers will all be very similar performance (its generally only build quality that separates them, not construction specification). If you buy second hand you just need to know the age of property to align it with building standards at the time the only other difference is if someone has stuck a wind turbine or solar panel on the roof and you have choice between tow otherwise identical properties.

HIP's should stick to making sure the building hasn't been illegally alterted affecting health and safety and the like. That could be implemented easily and quickly and would be very beneficial. IMHO

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

, until they got nuked into oblivion and came out looking like an overpriced count of how many low energy lightbulbs the house came with

Incorrect...you assume that that is what it is all about because someone may have said so...have a look at the proposal and see what is actually involved for yourself....
You can read the details here

Originally Posted by Steve H

A delay to the proposals is NOT enough. The whole system needs to be scrapped. Something similar brought the Property market to it's knees in
Denmark and is likely to do the same here.

Incorrect...as far as am aware (and without going into extensive research at this very moment to confirm this) they are still using it. The English/Welsh system is loosely based on the american HIP system. The software is slightly different but many of the principles are the same.

Originally Posted by Ping

That homebuyers pack won't help things one little bit. The legal "dotting the I's and crossing the T's" will always hold things up... nevermind the people in the chain being as unreliable as they always will be...

Not exactly true Ping, the HIP once introduced and up and running will drastically reduce the time between offer and completion because you will know what you are buying from the word "go". And yes, the conveyancing process does take quite a bit of time which is why the searches and title deeds are to be included in the HIP...so that the time spent at conveyancers is cut down.

Originally Posted by DanDare

Right, I've heard a lot about this and then not really took any of it in as the missus used to be an estate agent so she knows more about it really.

In Lamens terms, I understood ( correct me if I'm wrong ):

You pay approx £500 to get someone to check over your property ( a survey of sorts ) which helps give info to prospective buyers.

If this is true, whats £500 compared to the amount of money changing hands in the property market these days.

Does this not help propective buyers and prevent people from pulling the plug at the last minute due to some technicallity.

Also why don't we adopt the same as Scotland when buying property ie:
Accepting an offer becomes legally binding.

Forgive my ignorance with the above, just my understanding of it all.

You speak many a true word there.

Originally Posted by Steve H

Ruth Kelly just made statement in the Commons. Apparently the HIPs scheme is being delayed for 12 months with the possibility of it being scrapped in its current form. Result.

Incorrect...read the full details on the dclg website.

Originally Posted by Ed

As re introducing it for 4 bedroomed houses, watch people who live in them remove a bed and convert the room into a study and claim it's 3 bed with a study but with potential for 4 bedrooms.

Correct, but that is only a temporary measure until enough people are trained to complete the inspection when the rest of the housing market will be phased in as well.

Originally Posted by Triumphumphumph

The intention was sound but half baked so yipee for a delay, maybe it will flounder some more and give time for a decent system to come in. Something is needed though even if just to prevent Friday afternoon chaos of chasing building approvals ( people doing unauthorised work or never getting them properly completed) and so on and believe me there are many, many of those which very often end up with a seller or purchaser in tears on the other end of the phone.

... lets face it new houses by major developers will all be very similar performance (its generally only build quality that separates them, not construction specification). If you buy second hand you just need to know the age of property to align it with building standards at the time the only other difference is if someone has stuck a wind turbine or solar panel on the roof and you have choice between tow otherwise identical properties.

HIP's should stick to making sure the building hasn't been illegally alterted affecting health and safety and the like. That could be implemented easily and quickly and would be very beneficial. IMHO

Exactly...this is one of many reasons why the HIP is being introduced. Too many planning applications for 'conservatories' ending up as 2-storey extensions and such like as well as unplanned extensions and loft conversions etc.

Yes, agreed. But wind turbines and solar panels make little difference to the energy efficiency of a property. The fabric and heating/water/insulation systems being used make the biggest difference...so no, solar panels, PV panels, etc are in effect high cost low short term gain items...no matter what the salesman says


Exactly! As stated before, part of the process involves checking these things and more