Shame on anyone who didn't turn out to vote

[lazymanc]

Originally Posted by Baph

I'll be completely honest, I didn't vote in the EU elections. According to the OP, it's my fault that the North West seat went to the wrong person.

Come on now Baph I'm obviously not blaming you for the voting in a constituency other than your own, but be thankful that your neighbours haven't been as easily taken in by BNP hate-mongering.

Why? (hopefully I've demonstrated above I have enough of an understanding as to what's going on!)

Well, no vote is better IMO, than a wrong vote. For those that think that's wrong, or even "appauling," I'd love to hear a reasoned argument as to who I should of voted for. EDIT: Imagine what would happen if no-one bothered to vote, at all! (OK, realistically the EU Parliament would just not have UK represenation, but that's a good step along the way to encouraging the UK government to think about what they're doing in Europe!).

Opportunities to have a say in how you are governed are few and far between - if you don't take that opportunity then you're basically saying you're either not interested, not capable of making a choice, or in your case, you don't feel there's anyone worth voting for. The problem is, a silent protest vote like that gets put down to voter apathy rather than any "f**k you!" message.

Political parties are never going to marry up 100% with your personal views (otherwise everyone would have their own party), so you have to pick the closest one, it's always a compromise. Choose 2 or 3 issues that are most important to you and research how your local MPs (in the case of local elections) have voted on those issues (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/).

If none of the three main parties are suitable then there's bound to be an independent candidate that is.

The only time I would overrule this is if there was a strong danger of a seat going to an extremist party like the BNP, and in that case I would use my vote tactically for the candidate most likely to defeat them.

I think that last sentence speaks volumes about the EU elections. Almost 70% of people just aren't bothered about voting.

That's a shame, don't you think? Shouldn't people care more about stuff that affects them, however indirect?

Funnily enough, 31.726% of the electorate bothered to vote in the North West too. Just that those who did, had more "BNP supporters" (or vote protestors - either way) amongst them (8% of all votes).

Also, perhaps it's relevant to point out that the Green Party gained more votes this year compared to last, than the BNP did in the North West. Labour & Lib Dems took a big hammering.

That was my point, it wasn't a swing vote for the BNP, it was lack of votes for the other parties that's resulted in them being elected by default.

[lazymanc]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

And shame on you for thinking thats what a democracy is. No one is meant to vote for the lesser of 2 evils. We should all have parties that appeal to us as voters and get our votes. If there was a party that said it would look after motorcyclists and their needs first and foremost in every area like parking, security/crime, road layouts, road quality etc then i'm sure almost every biker in the country would go an vote for them, right?

In an ideal world, yes, but there are an awful lot of people with an awful lot of differing opinions, and it's not practical to have unique parties for every particular collection of principals, there would be far too much fragmentation and it would be impossible to get anything done - look how it struggles with just the 3 parties presently.

You however suggest i vote for some other bunch of scumbags that i detest in order to ensure another lot of scumbags that i detest dont get it. That makes no sense, hence i didn't vote.

So every candidate available to you is a scumbag? Not every politician is an expenses fiddling baby eater. Do a bit of research on the candidates and pick someone who cares about (most of) the same issues you do.

now if they had an option saying "I think the parties preseent dont represent m in any way" and i could tick the box for that to show my feelings then i would happily trot along and vote.

But you do have that option! It's called a spoilt vote. You just need to damage the ballot paper in a way that won't be recognised as a vote for a particular candidate. These get recorded as no votes - it doesn't just disappear down the apathy toilet.

isn't that the point of voting after all...for the people to have their say and not to play tactical games for other parties?

I more often than not vote Lib Dem because more often than not my local LD MP voted how I would vote. As previously mentioned, the only time I would tactically vote would be to try to prevent an extremist candidate like Nick 'KKK' Griffin getting a seat - unfortunately this time around I'm in a minority.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by lazymanc

But you do have that option! It's called a spoilt vote. You just need to damage the ballot paper in a way that won't be recognised as a vote for a particular candidate. These get recorded as no votes - it doesn't just disappear down the apathy toilet.

Taken from your link...In voting, a ballot is considered to be spoilt, void, null or informal if it is regarded by the election authorities to be invalid and thus not included in the tally during vote counting.

So what do they do with them? they count howmany spilt papers they had, they dont deduct them from anything or make any issue about them do they? So whats the point of just spoling a paper? it doesnt make any kind of statment really does it?

And yes i do think MOST other MPs are baby eating, self serving, lying, cheating creeps who will do anything or say anything to get into the holy of all hollys, central govt. Onvce in they get to stick their noses deeper in the trough and their ear further away from the public.

In a lot of european countries they have scores of parties that they vote for, its not a confusing system but you say that the 3 party system is? Seriously mate they have conditioned you to believe that 2 party politics is the best thing and only cos its the best for the establishment.

I dont care whos in Govt...cos once they're in they are the Govt and they do what the hell they please.

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

So what do they do with them? they count howmany spilt papers they had, they dont deduct them from anything or make any issue about them do they? So whats the point of just spoling a paper? it doesnt make any kind of statment really does it?.

Not really no, but perhaps it should be counted. Or a non of the above option included... mind you what would happen if everybody voted non of the above or spoilt their paper...

I think its confusing having the MEP election on the same day as the local council elections and it should have been done on a seperate day.

I had two ballot papers one for local and for MEP. I knew who I wanted to vote for in the locals, but I had no idea who I wanted to vote for in the MEP so I had to make a hurried decision there and then on that one. Also the MEP ballot paper was mahoosive as it was 3 times the size of the local council one...

The one lib dem who got in in West Midlands (Shrewsbury is part of the WM area for this purpose) said that it was a shame that the MEPs hadn't got their message across to show how the Euro Parliament benefitted people in the West Midlands.

Given that we had no election literature through the door, no canvassers, no party policitcals, and the fact that the MEP concerned has never bothered to come to Shrewsbury, how are we supposed to know?

On another point, the delightful Griffin man is reported to have told the BBC that if a Pakistani in his area wanted help, he could go see the Labour MEP as Griffin represents white people only.

I wish there was some way in which the United Kingdom Parliament could outlaw the BNP. And I wish that Griffin could take an enforced holiday on Bikini Atoll. He does not represent me.

**UGH**

[timwilky]

Actually, when you think about it, it is probably a good thing that they have got a couple of back door seats.

It means people will now have to take them seriously and not think of them as a joke. By taking them seriously, I mean to start being concerned as to what their policies count for, before they get the opportunity to expand and claim some sort of legitimacy. At present a BNP vote is classed by many as a protest. One too many protesters and the unthinkable could happen

its amazing to see all the opinions being spoken about because the BNP got 2 seats - Why does this group cause so much grief?
I am not a BNP supporter and did not vote for them - tho I did spoli my paper and they were counted and reported back so you do get shown how many people exercise their vote (unlike the men i will always vote but thats another story)
At the end of the day they got the most votes - we live in a democratic society where people are allowed to stand - they did they got the most votes - 2 seat out of many isn't going to make a difference.
And while most of us do not subscribe to all their ideals - secretly most people will agree with one or two of them ( hides as the flack is thrown)
and while we should not persecute those who live with us peacefully in our multi cultural land why should we as the natives bend over backwards for others.
At the end of the day its two seats in Europe which is nothing - get over it.
tho i do believe that those who didn't vote or couldn't be bothered to even make a mark shouldn't contribute regardless of their thoughts on the outcomes

Originally Posted by Quedos

Quedos

Very well put.

Originally Posted by Baph

Well, no vote is better IMO, than a wrong vote. For those that think that's wrong, or even "appauling," I'd love to hear a reasoned argument as to who I should of voted for. .

To not disrespect the millions of people that died in the wars to give us the freedom to be ABLE to vote. Or you'd be speaking German.

Not voting is just going like "yeah cheers all you previous generations for going through hell, loosing practically everything, loved ones, life, homes, everything, but thanks for nothing, i don't think i'll bother"

Good enough reason? Do you have any morals? If so, you would now feel shame. If not, well, you'd not care....

[Luckypants]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

So what do they do with them? they count howmany spilt papers they had, they dont deduct them from anything or make any issue about them do they? So whats the point of just spoling a paper? it doesnt make any kind of statment really does it?

Well I have to say I think a spoilt ballot paper does count. Spoiling the ballot is a political act - it says that you were motivated to get up and go down to the polling station, but there was no candidate you felt deserved your support. This is a far better 'protest vote' than sitting at home watching Neighbours.

The spoilt ballot papers also count in the voter turnout calculations, because they did 'turn out'.

You will note that spoilt papers are always mentioned in the poll results.