Not quite sure how I feel about this story

Originally Posted by ASM-Forever

It always bemuses me how people can feel pity and indeed side with the criminal in cases like this or Tony Martin'.

Any criminal is a waste of space/oxygen etc i really can't see the issue with disposing of them.

As for the guy that fell/jumped....if he's a criminal i applaud the guy for launching him out the window!

The muslims have it right on this issue. One offence take a hand and if they persist then just kill them....job done.

It's not a case of siding with anyone, it's a case or proportional punishment to fit the crime. If you're going to get killed on the spot for being a burglar, you may as well go in armed and kill anyone you find on the way anyway, as you're going to get killed if you're caught regardless. I break the law on an almost daily basis by speeding, if I knew the death penalty awaited me on capture then I may as well just shoot the copper who tugs me and get a few more days freedom.

If I disturbed a burglar then I'd like to think I'd beat seven shades out of him (more likely, he'd beat seven shades out of me though). But, let's assume I'd beaten him to unconciousness, at this stage should I (a) call the cops, or (b) open a top floor window and toss the body through it? It's precisely this scenario that the courts and police try to address, there is nothing against the law in defending yourself or your property, there is nothing against the law in using proportional force to detain a burglar till the police arrive.

And I'll say again, the Tony Martin case raised a lot of questions, but there are plenty of other cases that provide a better poster child for those questions. Tony Martin is a state certified mentally ill paranoid, one who supports the BNP and the National Front, one who bought a four foot teddy bear to court with him everyday, one who was already a criminal himself long before the incident, one who illegally possesed multiple firearms. It's worth noting that illegal possesion of a firearm now carries a mandatory five year minimum stretch - or should we deal with that offence by summary execution too?

My reference to the Muslim punishment system was with regards to thieving and not any other crime.

I stand by what i said though...i dont see why one less thief isn't a good thing.

I've got no time for criminals. 2 balls, 2 chances...

Originally Posted by ASM-Forever

My reference to the Muslim punishment system was with regards to thieving and not any other crime.

I stand by what i said though...i dont see why one less thief isn't a good thing.

Ok, just thieving then. So a burglar would be well advised to murder every man, woman, and child he or she comes across in the course of their burglary. The punishment is just as severe, and by killing everyone they leave no witnesses and lessen the chance of getting caught? What would you rather lose, your VCR or the lives of you and your family?

Even the bible (somewhat harsh on such matters) preaches an eye for an eye, not an eye an arm and a leg for an eye.

EDIT: Just thought I'd add, in case it needs stating - I don't like burglars, I'm not "soft" on burglars, I want to see less crime. That's something I'm sure we have in common. Where I guess we differ is that I strongly believe that proportional punishment actually does result in less crime and heavy handed draconian punishment actually results in more crime.

The punishments already exist Matt for all the crimes people commit, its the judges being far too lenient thats the problem, the police catch them and present them to the courts and the judges just slap their wrists!

There are some updates on this case:

"43-year-old Sandiford was due to appear before magistrates on August 21 accused of `going equipped to steal'.

He was allegedly found in possession of bolt cutters, wire cutters, a screwdriver and a torch on June 11."

Police are not taking any action against the homeowner, and are not treating the death as suspicious.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....d_burglar.html
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....lar_death.html

And lo, it came to pass that there was the sound of knees jerking across that virual place known only as "the .org".........

Seems to me that we, the great unwashed, are not yet in full charge of the facts.

It was a warm night and the window my well have been open anyway. Said burglar could have fallen out of the window during a scuffle with the home-owner, who was perfectly legitimately protecting his family/posessions, i.e. it was an accident and not an intentional occurence.

Whatever the circumstances, I bet the homeowner feels real bad right now, and he has my sympathy.

Originally Posted by Jabba

I bet the homeowner feels real bad right now, and he has my sympathy.

I bet he feels bad about having his home violated but there's a strong possibilty he feels great about the scum being dead.

Originally Posted by Tiger 55

.....there's a strong possibilty he feels great about the scum being dead.

Speaking purely personally, I doubt that very much indeed.

Theft, burglary, rape....you know, some things are not justifiable in any way, shape or form!

I don't feel sorry for the dead man....I do feel sorry for all the people he has burgled who now live in fear.