Jesus and Easter

[21QUEST]

Originally Posted by Bluefish

I'll have some of what he's 21's on, must be strong stuff. Implies that the truth will never be found.

Well, if I could, I'd bottle it and make tonnes of money...no nooo that would be immoral so I wouldn't sell it.

Perhaps it's implying, 'Truth has paradoxical component to it"(?) or maybe just, "Truth is a paradoxical entity" (?)

What do you think?

Originally Posted by 454697819

Some of you need to educate yourselves with theology, the bible is the most accurately reproduced and circulated of any historical text.

There is more physical evidence Jesus existed that ceaser you just have to look for it and have your eyes open.

Point 1 is completely incorrect. The bible has been rewritten and translated so many times it's amazing that it's still coherent. Additionally, the content of the bible was written by people - not God - very often hundreds of years after the fact. This content has been selectively reproduced (see the existence of the apocrypha), and the final selection of content was only completed in the 14-1500s with the councils of Florence and Trent.
By comparison, the Qu'ran is much more accurate - although it still has plenty of inaccuracies, contradictions and creation accounts that defy scientific reasoning, the entire thing is accepted to be the word of God, via an angel, via man. Additionally, it is much more historically accurate because the bits concerning history rather than theology were written as the events actually happened.

Point 2 is a completely nonsensical statement. Firstly, what other kind of evidence is there other than "physical evidence"? Secondly, who is Caesar? Caesar is a Roman title referring to the emperor. If you are speaking specifically of Gaius Julius Caesar, then you're also wrong.

The evidence for the historical Jesus mostly centres around the fact that he was alive, and he was baptised (by John the Baptist) and crucified (by Pontius Pilate). Anything other than these facts do not have strong evidence, and most "evidence" trotted out usually comes from the bible. However, when examining history, you basically have to ignore the bible, as otherwise it becomes self-referential - "the Bible is the word of God because the Bible says that the Bible is the word of God" etc..

By contrast, almost the entirety of Julius Caesar's family tree is known and can be proven, the extent of his military campaigns are known and can be proven, his rebellion against Rome and instigation of a civil war is known and can be proven, that he became Emperor is certain (particularly since every subsequent emperor took the title Caesar - where else did that come from?), and, in fact, nearly every aspect of his life was known. This is because Julius Caesar was far more important than Jesus. While this is no longer the case, who do you think had more scribes writing their history - a carpenter's son, or one of Rome's greatest generals and eventual emperor?

While I appreciate that you have your faith, please back your claims up with valid points when it comes to historical evidence.

[N.B., re: your point on theological research, I have quite broad knowledge myself, but my girlfriend has a degree in theology and corrected/amended parts of this reply].

Originally Posted by The Idle Biker

Nice one Thulfi. tbh the fervent atheists who demand evidence in order to believe in something leave me mystified. They talk about the Universe and nature, and how ridiculous faith sounds. In my view it's all gobsmackingly mystifying, black holes, quantum physics, haydron collider, **** that I can't understand that past the first introduction. Sceptics nod knowingly at whatever Brian Cox and his peers say and pretend they they understand the detail. Feckin jokers. Its all a mystery.

Lack of understanding doesn't prove the existence of God. This is known as the fallacy of the God of the Gaps. Every time science can't explain something, God did it. If a person doesn't understand something, God did it. Things like black holes and quantum physics are difficult to wrap your head around, but there is evidence for both of them - otherwise science wouldn't consider them as fact and wouldn't be pursuing research into them. One of the basic fundamentals of quantum physics can be shown with nothing more than a lightbulb and a piece of card with slits in it.

I understand Faith, and I genuinely envy people who have it, but I lost mine a long time ago and I now won't believe anything that doesn't have some form of verifiable evidence for it.

[BanannaMan]

Ever notice how it's okay to post endless pages arguing the atheist's belief?
And how religion bashing only involves Christianity?
When's the last time you heard someone publicly ridiculing the Muslum faith?





I believe in Jesus Christ and I had a wonderful and blessed Easter with the family today.
Reguardless of your own beliefs, I hope everyone had a wonderful Easter.

[widepants]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

I don't need religion to 'guide' me, I live by my own moral code and can screw things up in my own ways that certainly don't involve the same degree of hypocrisy as demonstrated by the world's major religions.

Religion is simply a means for the cowards to control the minds of the masses

oh Lozzo....will you marry me.(but not in church of course)

[widepants]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5COtGsDL4hQ
spend 5 mins with the above clip
I believe in Thor......seen him on the flicks with his mahosive hammer.

Originally Posted by Neeja

Lack of understanding doesn't prove the existence of God. This is known as the fallacy of the God of the Gaps. Every time science can't explain something, God did it. If a person doesn't understand something, God did it. Things like black holes and quantum physics are difficult to wrap your head around, but there is evidence for both of them - otherwise science wouldn't consider them as fact and wouldn't be pursuing research into them. One of the basic fundamentals of quantum physics can be shown with nothing more than a lightbulb and a piece of card with slits in it.

I understand Faith, and I genuinely envy people who have it, but I lost mine a long time ago and I now won't believe anything that doesn't have some form of verifiable evidence for it.

[widepants]

Originally Posted by Neeja

Lack of understanding doesn't prove the existence of God. This is known as the fallacy of the God of the Gaps. Every time science can't explain something, God did it. If a person doesn't understand something, God did it. Things like black holes and quantum physics are difficult to wrap your head around, but there is evidence for both of them - otherwise science wouldn't consider them as fact and wouldn't be pursuing research into them. One of the basic fundamentals of quantum physics can be shown with nothing more than a lightbulb and a piece of card with slits in it.

I understand Faith, and I genuinely envy people who have it, but I lost mine a long time ago and I now won't believe anything that doesn't have some form of verifiable evidence for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofHhzzTA6bk
rather listen to this guy than some choirboy fidder telling me to "BELIEVE"

Originally Posted by BanannaMan

Ever notice how it's okay to post endless pages arguing the atheist's belief?
And how religion bashing only involves Christianity?
When's the last time you heard someone publicly ridiculing the Muslum faith?

Atheism is a lack of belief. Im asssuming that by "the atheist's belief" you mean anything to do with an evidence-based approach to spirituality/religion. Why would it not be okay to post about this?

For the record, I don't think that it's wrong to post endlessly about religion. However, when factually incorrect statements are made then they should be challenged. I disagree with the dismissive approach of some posters above, as faith is something that should be treated sensitively, which is why my replies stuck to what the facts are.

If somebody posted that they believed that their SV ran on phlogiston installed at the factory and petrol just evaporates inside the tank, and when the weight of the tank got so low the engine stopped working until it was refilled, I'm sure that people would quickly point out the factual inaccuracies in the statement. Is it wrong to do that for posts made pertaining to religion?

And people "bash" Islam all the time, it's just that it tends to be directed at the behaviour of Muslims rather than the theological basis of Islam - and that's because most people in Christian countries don't understand Islam, because its only in the last few decades that Muslims have become common in these places, and Islam generally isn't explained well (or at all) in schools. So instead criticisms tend to be levelled at the way that they all marry children and want to spread sharia and make every woman on the planet wear a burka. And so on.

Originally Posted by BanannaMan

I believe in Jesus Christ and I had a wonderful and blessed Easter with the family today.
Reguardless of your own beliefs, I hope everyone had a wonderful Easter.

I'm glad to hear you had a great Easter - mine was pretty good, too

[littleoldman2]

You lot just don't get it do you. Lozzo set this away as a grand wind up and you've all run with it. Bet he's laughing himself daft at the mayhem caused whilst he pulls the legs off a spider for added fun.