Caught speeding.

Originally Posted by lynw

Do you seriously believe contesting cases makes an iota of difference or ever will? No it wont. All, and seriously, ALL it does is make useless and pointless protests which clog up the legal system. Those cases where the police have been at fault just close another loophole as they tighten up procedures so in future there will be no technicalities to get off on.

The point here is that if you belive there is a fault with the system (in this case not a technical fault, but a fault in the way in which the legal system deals with the situation) you have a right to make your case felt. if more people did then the government may start to listen to what the people have to say.

Believe it or not, this is still a free country and people have a right to protest to the way law is enforced if they believe it is unjust, or not good for the country. And 99.9% of the users on here would agree that the policy of "enforcement" cameras is not in the public interest.

I have been penalised for being in a bus lane, the fact that the still picture doesn't show the BMW forcing me out of the lane did not allow me to contest the issue. Cameras do not give a subjective view of a situation, but they do raise a great deal of revenue....

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Originally Posted by lynw

Its not entirely driven by whats happened but the fact I see an increasing blame everyone else culture like America going on here. Which is coupled with the inability of people to take responsibility for their actions and face up to the consequences when they get caught.

People need to take greater responsibility this is true. However, people will only take responsibility for something if they accept they did something wrong. People will not accept they've done something wrong if they feel unjustly persicuted, dispite whether there is a law saying so or not, if the law or the way it's enforced isn't respected.

Trying to catch as many people speeding in situations (such as accelerating just before speed limit increases) where there is clearly no detriment to safety (and that's the only reason to enforce the limits) commands no respect what so ever, so it's no surprise people don't take responsibility.

Originally Posted by mpaton2005

I'm afraid that I think you are being quite hypocritical and going back to "the law" (as you put) allows citizens of our country to do such things, regardless of how annoying you think it is.

Im not a hypocrite if I choose to break the law despite knowing what the law is and pointing that out to you. I would be if I got caught then whinged and complained about it. My point is that I know the law, I choose to break it where I deem it safe to do so and if, and actually when Ive been caught, Ive accepted it. I broke the law, I knew the punishment I took responsibility for my actions reguardless of the rights/wrongs of cameras.

It's a waste of time debating with you Lyn, you just ignore all the points I make.

Originally Posted by mpaton2005

It's a waste of time debating with you Lyn, you just ignore all the points I make.

whatever. youre so blinded by your anti-camera vendetta trying to make you aware there are consequences to your actions for innocent people obviously doesnt matter to you.

Im arguing a different argument to the rights/wrongs of cameras if you can get past that. Its not hypocritical to point out the law and ask why when you know it, if you get caught you feel the need to whinge and complain.

Originally Posted by lynw

Its not hypocritical to point out the law and ask why when you know it, if you get caught you feel the need to whinge and complain.

I know the law when it comes to getting caught by a safety camera / red light camera, etc. However, my point is - if there are mitigating circumstances which caused the law to be breached, they will _not_ be considered by the cameras, you will be fined, etc regardless.

In this case, I would view myself as innocent, and contesting it in a court of law would _not_ be wasting time.

A certain set of criteria must be met to obtain a conviction - if any one of those is in doubt, then the conviction must be deemed unsafe. Therefore my initial post to BigApe regarding things to check. If he doesn't want to, then that's fair enough.

Originally Posted by mpaton2005

I know the law when it comes to getting caught by a safety camera / red light camera, etc. However, my point is - if there are mitigating circumstances which caused the law to be breached, they will _not_ be considered by the cameras, you will be fined, etc regardless.

In this case, I would view myself as innocent, and contesting it in a court of law would _not_ be wasting time.

Im not arguing that, I accept in those cases then you have extremely valid points and reason for going to court. Im arguing against your blanket advocation a couple of pages back that everyone caught by a camera when there arent mitigating circumstances should waste court time

A certain set of criteria must be met to obtain a conviction - if any one of those is in doubt, then the conviction must be deemed unsafe. Therefore my initial post to BigApe regarding things to check. If he doesn't want to, then that's fair enough.

equally I accept this, and my point a few posts back was that these are getting fewer and fewer as cases are lost and procedures tightening up.

also consider, if everyone went to court as a protest what option do you think the government would do. a. review the policy on safety cameras b. review their allowing court hearings and removing your right to a court hearing? Its heading that way with lesser penalties and no costs if you plead straight away as is.

I dont agree with cameras unless they really are in accident black spots and I wish dual carriageways could have variable speed limits like the M25 has ie 50 in rush hour on the A2 is probably sufficient, 70 national after 10am would make sense...

but hey, politics, revenue and common sense will never meet..

On a lighter note... had a great morning putting some roadcraft/IAM stuff into practice, mostly well within the limit and it felt pretty good... get the odd wally driving too close but they're gone soon enough. It feels a lot better when not riding at or over the limit (which is usually my style) as there's no need to look out for cams/cops and hazards can be dealt with in plenty of time as the speed is slightly lower than what I'd normally ride at.

For anyone who regularly rides over the limit, try it for one ride - a couple of hours sticking to or below the limit... it's very hard (at least for me) and it's easy to go over it a few times, but the quality of the ride is better - you notice more, can enjoy the road, watch for hazards, etc. a lot more as you're not giving any thought over to watching for cams/cops... I was very impressed how different and relaxing it felt compared to my normal style!

[Balky001]

SVeeedy Gonzales - considering your last post, maybe Rock SVeady Eddy might be more appropriate - given your consistent speed! I hear what you are saying about not having to look out for police/cameras though, its a pain especially on busier A roads