ARTNW Rideout Discussion Thread

[Luckypants]

I have created this thread for the rideout discussion posts that have been going on in the ARTNW Photo Thread. This is a more appropriate forum for the discussion as this is related the running of group rideouts.

I ask that posts are kept to the point and not personal. Inappropriate comments will be moderated per site rules...

Well I am in reflective mode now, as I am on a 12 hour night shift, I thought I would use my break to post my thoughts of the whole weekend, as my perspective is slightly different to other people’s as it was my first bike meet, and my first “big” group ride.

I was originally apprehensive about going, because I had never met anyone I was about to meet previously. I met Mike Chandler (Chandler 93) at Wetherby Services and rode the whole way down with him. We had a couple of stops on the way so had chance to chat etc.

When we got to the campsite we were greeted at the entrance by Ed, was a really nice chap, and we were directed to the tent field. When we rolled up there were already quite a few people there with tents pitched. As soon as we got there, people came over to introduce themselves, and I quickly felt at ease. I quickly got my tent up and went to the supermarket to get supplies (Beer). Everything was sorted by 3pm, so I was able to relax and talk to everyone else as a steady stream of people came over to take the pi55 out of my airhawk seat hahahaha. I really enjoyed the evening chatting to people and having a laugh. The banter was good. I went to bed about 23:30 and woke feeling like death. After shower and breakfast I was ready for the ride out, but was getting the feeling some people were getting itchy feet to go, while others wanted breakfast. I enjoyed probably the biggest fry up ever, in the satellite dish sized bread bun. Afterwards I went and got my gear on.

The brief seemed perfectly normal to me. It was clear what we needed to do, and the route was explained in detail. When we set off from the gate, I saw the bikes coming past and was a bit confused, but just got on with setting off as I was near the front. I was riding along looking about and enjoying the roads etc, and was thinking the pace is steady, I could go faster if I want, but I don’t know the etiquette on overtaking when part of a group. It was after the town where Steve (DavieSV mate) nearly got side swiped, that I could tell people were getting irate about the pace, as bikes were coming up the outside of people and a lot of changing positions was happening. This personally didn’t bother me, until I started to get near the front, as I was caught thinking, do I ride faster because quicker riders are behind me, but not to fast that I shoot past the leader or worse miss a turning. So when my music packed up on the garmin at the Garden Centre I left right at the back of the group. This allowed me to overtake people and settle in a place where I was comfy. I stayed in that area for the rest of the ride and felt comfortable.

I was conscious that some people had filled up, and others hadn’t etc so we had a big group of bikes that all had different levels of fuel.

When we were on the road by the Estuary, I thought that seemed like we were going very slow. Again it didn’t bother me at all, but it did seem slow. When we got to the seaside town, I was just glad to get something to eat. When I had a good look at the map, and then my Satnav I thought Oh **** we are going to be out until 9pm. I said at this point I will program my Satnav and take a direct route back. I wasn’t really sure what went on after as there were groups talking all over the car park. In the end the bikes all lined up so I set off with everyone else. When I got to the left hand turn by the bridge I was totally confused. Some people were pulling in, someone was pointing for me to go right. There were a group of bikes lined up on the hill so I knew they were going left. I looked at the Satnav and that said turn left so I turned my music up and turned left. I passed about 3 junctions with Markers and then nothing. I thought this a little strange as I had now ended up totally on my own. Following the Satnav I thought fook it and I will cane it to ensure I catch the CO-OP.

I managed to catch a group of people, and we rode on for about another 10 miles and then stopped at the junction on hill. People were all saying different things about the route back. So I said to Ryan and his Pillion follow me and we will use the Satnav if we get lost. We set off with everyone again. I was really puzzled after this though as some junctions were marked and some were not, which made me think we were going a different route to everyone else. I eventually caught the yellow bandit up and followed him until we got to a T-Junction where he stopped. We took a right out of there and that is the last I saw of anyone apart from Ryan until just outside Wem. About 3 miles out of Wem, there was a big group of riders turning left, but my Satnav said we were 3 miles out of Wem. I tried shouting, but to no avail. I took the right, and was back in Wem in minutes. I went to the Co-op for beer and a sit down.

When I got back to the campsite there were a few people there, and I admit to being a bit hacked off at first. After a shower it was all forgotten, and I started drinking with everyone else. The rest of the night is a blur, as was much of the next morning, but I needed to set off back early to ensure I got home for 1pm. I left with Mike at about 10:00am I think

Overall I really, really enjoyed the weekend. The social aspect was a right laugh, and really enjoyed just sat taking the pi55 and talking about bikes. I am not sure riding in a big group is for me though as it mixes so many skills and abilities together. The jury is out, but I am sure the next meeting will help me decide.

The biggest problem I had was when I got home, and my wife found I got a text from a number I had saved as “Specialone” lol!

Jeez Dan, that was a war and peace post

Group rides can be a good laugh, I personally prefer smaller groups, I think 6-10 bikes is ideal as it's easier to keep together.
I would wait until you have done another couple before making your mind up about them overall.

Originally Posted by specialone

Jeez Dan, that was a war and peace post

Group rides can be a good laugh, I personally prefer smaller groups, I think 6-10 bikes is ideal as it's easier to keep together.
I would wait until you have done another couple before making your mind up about them overall.

I haven't attended the weekends in question so I am not about to make negative judgements on anyone in particular or any events that have been held in the past, but here's my personal take on rideouts in general with some positive observations of the one org rideout I have done.

6-10 bikes isn't a ride-out, it always develops into a mad thrash with someone struggling dangerously to keep up. You can have a mass rideout as long as the man up front keeps up a good pace by everyone's standards and not just his/her own. The worst rideouts I've ever been on have been led by someone who is a staunch advocate of 'advanced rider training' because they are boringly slow for everyone - the faster riders get frustrated at the lack of pace and that's when the whole ride starts to fall apart because they will go and play knee-down on the twisties where the leader wants to do his 'billy-bolt-upright' act. If the pace was quicker to start with they'd just go along with it and the silly antics/dangerous overtakes wouldn't come into their mind. 2nd man marking works, as long as everyone checks behind before turning at a junction to make sure that someone following has seen where they're meant to turn. If they can't see anyone they wait in view of the approach and make sure they're seen and that the follower knows where they've gone before moving off. Dedicated markers in Hi-viz is not always a good idea on a large ride-out; they have to work very hard overtaking some fairly new riders at the back to get back to the front group. This can have problems with those people spending the whole rideout being buzzed by fast riders with stacks of confidence coming in a bit too close for the newbie's comfort. It's also inevitable that a fair chunk of the route will be on bendy roads making overtaking a mission on the trek back to the front group.

Personally I enjoy larger rideouts such as the only .org one I did at AR09. The pace was good, the marking was very good for dedicated type, the bit of the route I did was fantastic (I joined half way). People will find their own place in the group, you send the known faster people off first and the rest will overtake and settle in where they feel comfortable with the novice riders and the not so confident being shepherded along by a patient TEC. Everyone should be given a basic printed map route showing stops and fuel stations close to or on the route and phone numbers of the Leader, TEC and other organisers. Stops should be made for catch up every 30 miles or so and everyone should make sure they've filled up before the start. There's nothing more annoying than setting off on what you're hoping will be a good long run out and then stopping 5 minutes up the road so 30 people can fill up at a 4 pump petrol station.

Overall the route should be fun and interesting with a variety of roads and scenery with some handy stopping points that have enough room for all bikes to pull in off the road, preferably with a tea wagon or cafe. The route itself should be ridden in its entirety by not just the leader, but a couple of other key members of the organisation as well. It's no use putting together a rideout like a jigsaw saying to yourself "I've ridden this bit and that bit and that section and they're all fun, I just need to send us up that mountain road then that bit of dual carriageway and we'll link them together" - you need to plan the route well in advance with local help and ride the whole route in one go on the same type of day as the ride will take place. There's no point doing your full route recce on a Tuesday evening when you're taking 150 riders through a popular weekend destination on a Sunday afternoon. A rideout is for fun and if the majority of the riders aren't having fun then the leader needs to know why. He can either take it as constructive criticism or he can get the ar5e, but either way he needs to know during the ride at the earliest possible chance (so he/she can do something about upping the pace and/or sorting out better junction marking) and not sat round a campfire that night when everyone is the wrong side of 8 cans of Stella and mega pi55ed off with the fact they got lost or didn't get out of fourth gear.

Just my tuppence worth and please remember this is not a criticism of anyone or any event, just my view on rideouts in general having been on and helped organise a fair few good rideouts and having ridden on couple of bad ones in the past.

Originally Posted by specialone

Jeez Dan, that was a war and peace post

Group rides can be a good laugh, I personally prefer smaller groups, I think 6-10 bikes is ideal as it's easier to keep together.
I would wait until you have done another couple before making your mind up about them overall.

Not bad for 2 in the morning.

[dizzyblonde]

Shouldn't this be in idle banter or summat?

Originally Posted by specialone

If, and a big if i go to the AR this year, im only going for the social side tbh, ill come in my car with a bigger tent, not keen on going on a rideout with 100+ bikes.

Unfortunately I am one of those organising the damn event, and I fecking hate riding with so many these days, as I ride my own ride not other peoples, theres too many slow buggers, and too many people who think they are riding gods, who have a point to prove(who are actually ****).
BUT......I'll have to go on the rideout this time! IMO you'd be missing some absolutely gorgeous roads and scenery....emphasis on sceneryWe're choosing trusted people as markers, the route will have been recced to death, and the roads have been chosen as we've ridden them in the past and enjoy them do much they're crying out to be shared.

It is by far an individual decision to come in a car and stay at the site during the day, I've stayed on site at two ARs, theres always a group that does

Organising a large event is a bloody headache, gettting the rideout spot on is a very hard task. I'm having kittens you people won't have a good time, and will start pulling it to pieces when you get home.....like in this instance.


Instead of nit picking, and analysing a past ride out, should people be concentrating on the next one?
No offense to Ed, as he put on a rather splendid weekend by all accounts, but I seriously think its time to look ahead....not backwards. I needs this section to start promoting the main forum event of the year

6-10 bikes is a rideout IMO, if you have restraint and a brain you don't have to ride any different, I ride to my pace and let the faster younger guys do their things up front.

I've been on a few larger rides and none of them has been as good as the smaller ones I've been on.
We done one around Northampton, Loughborough way a few weeks ago with about 7 of us, probably one of the most enjoyable ones I've done to date, ended up being 270 miles for me in under 8 hours with a few stops in that as well.

[dizzyblonde]

IMO, 6-10, thats just a group of mates out on a jolly. Can go as fast or as slow as you want, as you all know each other. Much more fun, less people to look at.
A rideout, really needs much more organisation, as you have to cater for the lowest possible denominator as far as skills and experience is concerned, and at the other end of the scale, those that really open a can o woopass on the road, petrol stops(very important for my fuel consumption), food stops, beginning, end, cliffs, sheep,caravan hotspots........

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

IMO, 6-10, thats just a group of mates out on a jolly

Think we're just getting a bit hung up on what the word rideout means, there's big ones and small ones, big ones need more planning and organisation, hey ho!

When you post a "rideout" on the forum, you never know who will sign up, you could get three young lads who did DAS last week if they happen to be in the area, have good weather, and fancy meeting some of the folk on this new forum they've joined. Regardless of whether it's a jolly with mates or not, when on the forum certain pre-requisites, leader, TEC, marking system, route, fuel stops etc, still need to be thought about, even if nobody actually does a recce.

We did an SV Ecosse rideout, which started as "anyone going out this Saturday", and through a convenient date and a blinding weather forecast, we ended up with 27 bikes!

Just had an e-mail from Ed, he will not be on this site for the forseeable future, either posting or reading posts and definately not organising any more rideouts. it's no good pm'ing him either as he won't read those either. I have his e-mail but am not going to post it but can pass on messages if required.

Daryl.

P.S Fenjer, you did overtake on a blind bend, I was behind you, and it was definately dangerous, remember that restraint is a lifesaver!. I didn't say anything as it was up to Ed as it was his rideout and I've had it thrown in my face on here before now that I'm an IAM observer with pipe and slippers and a beard, wrong on all three counts.

Daryl.