NW Rideouts & accidents

[G]

I havnt been on an official NW rideout, but had noticed that at each event there had been a minor incident.

I have riden with some of the people who regularly attend, and naively when I first started to ride in groups I used to feel obliged to keep up, and indeed nearly came acropper on the C&F in doing so.

It has nothing to do with how new a rider the person is, its more to do with how new a person is to riding in groups. Although none of the riders who have fallen have been 'new riders' they may have been relatively new to riding in a group situation.

Its all well and good saying people should ride to their own abilities, but you would be lieing to yourself if you said you did not feel at all obliged to keep up.

Just my 2p's worth from group rides I have been on.

Originally Posted by Luckypants

I am as concerned about the crashing rate as much as anyone, to the point of seriously reconsidering organising another. It is all very well saying we are concerned about the accident rate - but so far no one has come with any new reasons for this or specific problems.

The group idea has been mooted and discussed as a potential alternative way of organising things, but to my mind this does not address any specific problem as none has been identified. As has been pointed out, this may actually cause more problems.

We also had ruffy talking about generic and specific risks, which was a bit of a waffly way of saying bikes are dangerous per se (generic risk) but failed to identify any risks associated with a ride out (specific risks). We still await his comments about what he sees these specific risks to be.

So folks it's time to put up or shut up.

What are the risks specific to these North Wales rides? (I have my ideas and believe these to be addressed - but have no wish to pre-empt the discussion)

its nothing to do with north wales, i enjoy wales immensely and if i had to ride slowly i prob wouldn't bother going, i ride swiftly because i enjoy that way of riding and take all the risks on board, its still all worth while and i just cant change, everything in life is risky so just ride and enjoy.

Very valid point there Graeme, and something to watch out for in future (group ride novices).

It's not a risk we can mitigate against, and is unfortunately inevitable.

I must admit that I'm personally terrible for running off & having a play when I'm solo riding (chasing IL4s for example), and guilty of a couple of dubious overtakes in groups. The spirit of the ride does tend to get to me now & then, but for the majority of the time, I'd like to think I'm considerate.

EDIT: Just as a light hearted comment... A specific risk we face on ride-outs in North Wales... Brunstrum's army...

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by Baph

I'm not aware of any other section of the .Org having such a high rate of ride-outs :: accidents, and this has been bugging me for a long while.

Paging the rest of the Soho Massive - we seem to be getting better (at least as far as the "outsiders" see it.

We wont mention the 5 offs in a week of last week in front of them:P (we can discuss whether being at 0mph at the time, being on a track, being at the end of your road, not being on an SV or catching your bike on your back-protector count or dont count as crashes another time :P)

My Tuppence worth.

Its the SIZE of the rideout that has caused this.

Not because of the range of experience, knowledge of the road or anything else.

Riding IS a bit of a percentages game - no-one is 100% perfect, so they may have a 1% chance of falling off if they are the best.

Take more average riders, and their percentages are more than that mythial 1%, add all those up and you can pretty much say if you have enough riders under ride-out conditions, there is a good chance that it may happen on any given rideout.

Oh and I believe we have had 3 down in a single ride-out - I certainly know of a ride with 2 down, within minutes, but > mile apart

[Luckypants]

Thanks for putting this in context SK, so we are not the only group suffering from crash-itis.


Now can any one identify the specific risks?

[G]

Originally Posted by Luckypants

Now can any one identify the specific risks?

Riding a motorbike.......

[_Stretchie_]

Originally Posted by graemepaterson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckypants
Now can any one identify the specific risks?

Riding a motorbike.......

Originally Posted by graemepaterson

It has nothing to do with how new a rider the person is, its more to do with how new a person is to riding in groups. Although none of the riders who have fallen have been 'new riders' they may have been relatively new to riding in a group situation.

Its all well and good saying people should ride to their own abilities, but you would be lieing to yourself if you said you did not feel at all obliged to keep up.

Personally no, I am not lying to myself when I say that on all the rideouts i`ve been on I have never once felt obliged to keep up.... NEVER!

As what I consider to be an inexperienced rider the rideouts i`ve been on have been a fantastic learning opportunity for me. I`ve ridden in all weather and observed how the more experienced riders change their riding styles to suit weather conditions. I`ve observed the "approach" that more experienced riders take when approaching bends and the lines they take. I`ve ridden at a pace comfortable for me and have been given feedback from other riders which has been a positive thing.

Group riding has its advantages and for somebody who may be lacking in confidence I think it`s reassuring to be part of a group of more experienced riders. Constructive feedback has also been given when more experienced riders see what they consider to be unsafe riding which again is a useful and positive thing.

Prior to all rideouts we have been briefed accordingly and having yesterday read the Bikesafe information on group rideouts I can happily say that everying covered on the Bikesafe recommendations has been covered in the rideouts organised by Luckypants.

He has also organised a novice rideout which was extremely good fun and something he was under no obligation to take on board.

I can`t think of any specific risks associated to group riding other than people riding to close to the bike in front... that is discussed in the briefing and no accidents have occurred due to a rider doing this. I know Mike has expressed concern over the the number of bikes taking part in a rideout around the time of NW3 and this may be something to look at in future. Maybe if in future there is an excessively large number of bikes then might be the time to think of splitting into 2 smaller groups each led by an experienced rider with a knowledge of the roads but this would purely be due to number of bikes and not arranged into level of experience.

On my recent Bikesafe course there were 9 candidates.... we were all told at the very start of the course that within the next few years we will all have some sort of an accident however minor as those unfortunately are the statistics where biking is concerned.

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

I know Mike has expressed concern over the the number of bikes taking part in a rideout around the time of NW3 and this may be something to look at in future. Maybe if in future there is an excessively large number of bikes then might be the time to think of splitting into 2 smaller groups each led by an experienced rider with a knowledge of the roads but this would purely be due to number of bikes and not arranged into level of experience.

See, constructive.

Nice though that the groups idea was raised, then immediately shot down in flames as the assumption was about skill. Yet when it's raised about numbers, it's perfectly acceptable.

[yorkie_chris]

Being split by skill #may# work, but IMO it would cause more problems with some people not being happy in a particular group.

However, getting close to the end of a ride and having the option of directly to the end/bunkhouse or going and doing another 50 miles... you could call that a group system and it's not going to lead to teddys being thrown because it's a voluntary thing. I believe this is how the glencoe massacre is being run.

However, that isn't going to change the odds on an accident, IMO neither is splitting groups by skill.