View Full Version : Bikers are bad?
yorkie_chris
09-09-09, 11:50 AM
Now why would you want to undo all that good progress..? ;):razz:
From this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj5yeahoaTI
To this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I5MkrMzAs8
It's not good!
Some might say that I rode like an 'idiot' on Sunday. .
i would not say that:smt008
the main thing is did you enjoy it?
i did, so dont realy care what label people want to put on me, i did not come off, nor did i put anyone else in danger (AFAIK)
Bluewolf
09-09-09, 11:53 AM
.
Why is that a 'retarded' question.
Because you seem to have taken the statement entirely literally.
Idiocy is in the eye of the beholder.
-Ralph-
09-09-09, 01:00 PM
The definition of what makes an idiot is definitely a matter of individual opinion. "I rode like an idiot" could mean doing 100mph on the motorway to someone who usually does 65.
Fizz is right though, the police don't crush bikes lightly, and so whatever the theory may be about how you can get an ASBO and how easily your bike COULD legally be crushed, do the police actually crush bikes because the owner has revved it too loudly on two occasions? Maybe someone can produce such an example, but don't think they would. I know that I don't do anything in my riding that would get mine crushed, I'd expect a telling off, a fixed penalty ticket, or possibly a trip to court if I'm really unlucky enough for a copper to just be "in the right place at the right time" as discussed earlier. IMO if the offence or offences were serious enough to get a bike crushed, then good riddance.
madness
09-09-09, 01:12 PM
i would not say that:smt008
the main thing is did you enjoy it?
i did, so dont realy care what label people want to put on me, i did not come off, nor did i put anyone else in danger (AFAIK)
Perhaps on that open stretch of moorland road when I was doing ***mph I was seen by a walker who thought 'look at that f**king idiot'. I was riding at a speed that was safe for the situation, but to a non biker it probably looked stupidly excessive.
And yes, I did enjoy it! :D
Speed limits are too general to be obeyed blindy. Near my house it is all 30 but I know the local kids play in the street and are forever dashing out from behind cars, so I never do over 20. The road from 53°48'47.87"N 3° 3'7.51"W to 53°47'39.01"N 3° 0'10.23"W is a 30 into a 40 but safe at over 50 (aside from the stupid new extra slippy with cobbles road surface just laid down outside the football stadium).
One day I will figure out how to post google earth links but....
merlin427
09-09-09, 04:15 PM
If I use your statement to judge my riding, then yes, a couple of times on Sunday I was idiotic. It's very easy to fall into the trap of trying to keep up with better, more experienced riders.
And it's easy not to. That can be a pretty painful bear trap.
I used to ride with a couple of lads, then it became 4, then 6 and so on, as the numbers went up so did the stupid behaviour. The mentality seemed to be that if rider A can get through a gap so can B and C and so on. But rider A was probably up front because he had more talent/experience (some people do - live with it) AND he got there first, several seconds before rider B and many before rider F, conditions had moved on, they're now halfway round the bend with car drivers swerving out the way (yes, those idiots who you can't trust). One Sunday 14 turned up and I decided not to bother, only 10 came back un-injured.
-Ralph-
09-09-09, 05:11 PM
AndyW, I'm glad so see there's finally somebody on this forum who posts more uncessary detail than me. You don't quite suffer from my level of typing diahorrea, but you've definately beaten me by posting those co-ordinates.
i love it when people post how they never brake the law, then when you actuly meet them, the rule books out the window
I have said that a few times, may have even said it at the weekend.
and I may have been telling a white lie when I said the below, if thats what your post was about lol
I always ride 110% to the law :-)
ones with a solid outer line you can't enter, right? I was taught to use hatchings where possible if it gets you out of a vulnerable road positioning
Yeah, that's right. I was just surprised because I very rarely see the ones with a solid border
and I may have been telling a white lie when I said the below, if thats what your post was about lol
I loved it :D.
I ride 200% to the law! ;)
madness
09-09-09, 08:17 PM
And it's easy not to. That can be a pretty painful bear trap.
I used to ride with a couple of lads, then it became 4, then 6 and so on, as the numbers went up so did the stupid behaviour. The mentality seemed to be that if rider A can get through a gap so can B and C and so on. But rider A was probably up front because he had more talent/experience (some people do - live with it) AND he got there first, several seconds before rider B and many before rider F, conditions had moved on, they're now halfway round the bend with car drivers swerving out the way (yes, those idiots who you can't trust). One Sunday 14 turned up and I decided not to bother, only 10 came back un-injured.
However, and someone is bound to slate me for this!........
If you don't push your limits a little, then how are you going to improve. Obviously you need to push then only a little at a time. It's like anything. If always jog, I'll never be any good at sprinting. If I always climb easy rock climbs, then that's all I'll ever be capable of. The secret is in knowing how far you can push your limits and judging when it's safe to do so.
Dave20046
09-09-09, 08:20 PM
However, and someone is bound to slate me for this!........
If you don't push your limits a little, then how are you going to improve. Obviously you need to push then only a little at a time. It's like anything. If always jog, I'll never be any good at sprinting. If I always climb easy rock climbs, then that's all I'll ever be capable of. The secret is in knowing how far you can push your limits and judging when it's safe to do so.
Aslong as it is safe to do so and you feel comfortable with it. When people feel rushed and lose concentration or feel unsafe that's when target fixation can strike.
sutlane
09-09-09, 09:25 PM
Most likely reason for a bike to be crushed would be lack of tax. Or if you have maxed out your points on your license then the magistrate can order your vehicle seized and disposed of (crushed or sold) but this is very unlikely and hardly ever happens.
thats the one of the few things that are good about living in Milton Keynes...
everythings either 60mph or 70mph....fair enough they're just straight lines, but annihilating your way through one side of MK to the next on your bike is the greatest feeling...
because between roundabouts you dont really have much time to be hitting illegal speeds, so you're just getting to the roundabout, and then leaving cars for dust as you pull away...nevers gets any less fun!!
AndyW, I'm glad so see there's finally somebody on this forum who posts more uncessary detail than me. You don't quite suffer from my level of typing diahorrea, but you've definately beaten me by posting those co-ordinates.
If I don't post loads of detail, everyone misunderstands me :(
Doesn't help help that I usually make typos when posting it making it even harder to understand. I'm a programmer not a typist, dammit!
IrishRob
10-09-09, 11:42 AM
thats the one of the few things that are good about living in Milton Keynes...
everythings either 60mph or 70mph....fair enough they're just straight lines, but annihilating your way through one side of MK to the next on your bike is the greatest feeling...
because between roundabouts you dont really have much time to be hitting illegal speeds, so you're just getting to the roundabout, and then leaving cars for dust as you pull away...nevers gets any less fun!!
Used to live and work in MK, now just working here. Used to love getting out of David Lloyds gym after a good workout to go hunting on the roundabouts :)
PsychoCannon
10-09-09, 01:18 PM
Lol MK is GREAT for bikes as the round abouts mix it up nicely and you don't have much to supprise you in a grid system, but some of the dumbest cagers I've ever enountered have been on that same system >_<
ManxMatt34
10-09-09, 07:21 PM
Another thing i do which i wouldn't say is bad, i'll wake cage drivers up, especially driving on all single lanes almost here... i am sick of manx drivers crossing the white lines round bends, so on straights etc... i make them more bike aware by driving a few inches off the white line so they all have to push over for a bludy change... i also don't give way to buses if it's MY right of way, because the ammount of times they just go.
Well coming through kirk micheal 1 day i caused abit of a jam using this because it was my right of way and the bus driver assumed a small bike like me would move for a heffa like himself... wrong.
merlin427
10-09-09, 07:55 PM
However, and someone is bound to slate me for this!........
If you don't push your limits a little, then how are you going to improve. Obviously you need to push then only a little at a time. It's like anything. If always jog, I'll never be any good at sprinting. If I always climb easy rock climbs, then that's all I'll ever be capable of. The secret is in knowing how far you can push your limits and judging when it's safe to do so.
Absolutely correct, that is the natural evolution of learning anything, increase your limits a little at a time while monitoring the effects. It also helps to have some knowledge of what can be achieved. But what does this have to do with going out in a group and suddenly riding someone else's ride regardless of the fact that you are several metres behind them with probably less forward visibility?
I know there are always excuses for anything and perhaps when you ride in a group you still stay within your abilities but this is not the norm any more that the excuse for the 'embarrassing' motorcycle 'accident' statistics is due more of these 'accidents' being reported due to a higher likelihood of injury. Bottom line is you only need to spend a little time on the roads around your local motorcyclist meeting place (Devils bridge and Rivington for me) to see idiotic behaviour. It's up to us all to decide how fast we go and how many cunning stunts we perform but what grips me is how much complaining when people come a cropper either legally or physically.
Im not bad,the bike's the naughty one :rolleyes:
hunting on the roundabouts :)
greaat term...thats exactly what it is..hunting, lol!
yeeh pyscho...there's some idiotic drivers around mk...thought luckily the open big roads make them a bit easier to predict...
chumps cutting roundabout lanes is something that happens everywhere, but a lot of idiots round here!
DanAbnormal
11-09-09, 10:00 AM
This is why I hate going out in large groups. You just tend to get drawn into sillyness that you would normally avoid. Even if you ride safely, some other numpty might slam into you as they are too busy trying to get their kneedown on the next roudnabout. Not me though, I would never do that. Ahem. :rolleyes:
-Ralph-
11-09-09, 03:16 PM
This is why I hate going out in large groups. You just tend to get drawn into sillyness that you would normally avoid. Even if you ride safely, some other numpty might slam into you as they are too busy trying to get their kneedown on the next roudnabout. Not me though, I would never do that. Ahem. :rolleyes:
I think that depends upon how accustomed you are to group riding. I used to get drawn in, but now in my third summer of org rideouts, I couldn't give a stuff whose in front (unless they are holding me up and theres no safe place to pass which still frustrates me) and just ride at a pace I'm happy with, whether thats at the back or right up the chuff of the rideout leader, which everyone knows I can do if I want to so theres nothing to prove even if I felt the need. As a group with the discipline we put into the marker systems, and the "ride courtesously to other group members and at your own pace" that gets drilled into everyone who attends, I think we are pretty good. Some rideouts and the odd rider gets silly, but I think we are nothing like a group of mates who get together for a race once a year.
This is why I hate going out in large groups. You just tend to get drawn into sillyness that you would normally avoid. Even if you ride safely, some other numpty might slam into you as they are too busy trying to get their kneedown on the next roudnabout. Not me though, I would never do that. Ahem. :rolleyes:
I am not a fan of large group rideouts, much prefer smaller groups of people who you know pretty damn well and know how they ride, therefore not having people slaming the brake on in front of you on a wet corner.
metalangel
11-09-09, 05:57 PM
This is why I hate going out in large groups. You just tend to get drawn into sillyness that you would normally avoid. Even if you ride safely, some other numpty might slam into you as they are too busy trying to get their kneedown on the next roudnabout. Not me though, I would never do that. Ahem. :rolleyes:
This. But then, hovis seems as crazy to me as I probably did to Springbokki.
sv-robo
11-09-09, 06:40 PM
I break the law every single time I ride I think.
Do I feel bad? No.But sometimes i do feel a bit guilty considering i've got 2 young sons who need thier dad.
If I got caught it would be fair cop guv'nor. The trick is to do it when it's appropriate.
As above
sv-robo
11-09-09, 06:42 PM
Im not bad,the bike's the naughty one :rolleyes:
Hehe,i like that:)
Maybe the key is to spot the speed-trap, avoid being caught by sticking to the speed limit in that situation and by consequence be riding "safely"/legally due to being observant. Although that doesn't account for crafty coppers with speed-guns hiding in hedges on long, clear straights with no junctions. I dare say that 95% of bikers, nearly as many 4-wheeled road-users and a similar percentage of off-duty coppers regularly exceed speed limits. I try to stick to limits in built-up areas, avoid going over a ton in 60mph zones and enjoy the corners.
mike_avfc
12-09-09, 03:15 PM
I would love to meet one road user who has never broken the law!
My Mum !!! when she used to drive it was painful !
fastdruid
12-09-09, 03:40 PM
My Mum !!! when she used to drive it was painful !
I bet she did.
Never ever over 30mph in town? Not even down a hill?
Never ever stopped just over the stop line?
Never ever entered a box junction when it wasn't clear?
Never ever touched a white line (as in double or hatched sections)?
All things I see car drivers do every day, each one if caught by the police would be 3points a go. Yet those same drivers because they don't speed wouldn't consider themselves to be doing anything wrong. I mean 35mph isn't speeding is it?
Druid
I probably break the law as much (if not more) when I'm driving my car than when I'm riding. Nothing serious - it's just when riding, breaking more laws may equate to more dangers for oneself...
Besides, there's probably idiot drivers out there who don't break the law as much, but are so crap at driving they may not check a blind spot and take out a biker - and likewise, I'm sure many of us break traffic laws, but the fact that we bike means we're probably safer and more aware than most douche bags inside a cage anyway.
I know ever since I took up riding, I get ****ed off if ever in a car with my mate/mrs when they change lanes and don't shoulder check - I'm like "I could've been passsing you there on my bike and you would have taken me out".
At least we dont ride on the roads like we're the only vehicles on them. Many cagers do!
-Ralph-
13-09-09, 08:40 AM
I know ever since I took up riding, I get ****ed off if ever in a car with my mate/mrs when they change lanes and don't shoulder check - I'm like "I could've been passsing you there on my bike and you would have taken me out".
I agree that you should shoulder check in the car and I do out of habit, but in my car and a lot of modern cars, if positioned correctly the mirrors are designed to eliminate blind spots, so don't assume that just because somebody doesn't shoulder check that they'd have taken a biker out, you'd need to be sat in their seat with your head in the same position to know if the blind spot exists.
You would be amazed though how many drivers set their mirrors so 50% of the view is of the sides of their own car though. I have a few relatives (all female ;) ) that fall into that category.
Ceri JC
14-09-09, 09:09 AM
Yes, there are a minority of absolute lunatic bikers out there, but the rest of us are not entirely blameless.
+1. I'm not a big fan of the clowns who ride 1500 miles a year and think that this somehow qualifies them to ride a litre sportsbike at 170 down a road where 100 would be pushing your luck.
I don't think "the rest of us" are necessarily doing anything particularly dangerous most of the time. It's more that traffic laws don't recognise that (for example) there are many solid white lines that can not only be crossed completely safely on a motorcycle, but which are safer to cross (and break the law) than stay within. The problem is that road markings and traffic laws are designed to deal with "most vehicles" and the modern motorcycle is very far removed from most vehicles.
I passed about 1000 cars on the inside commute this morning. They were all DWDC and driving in the outside lane when they were not overtaking and there was nothing in the left two lanes. Start busting them before you go after (most) motorcyclists.
Ceri JC
14-09-09, 01:08 PM
Again, I could apply the above paragraph to most sports car drivers who are also enthusiasts. But we as bikers would point the finger at some idiot in a sports car, as they would at a loony biker.
Performance car enthusiasts are much worse IMO. They almost all drive quicker/more aggressively than the norm, but only a handful have better than average driving skills* and consequently I would say they are (on the whole) more dangerous than your 'average' driver. Especially when you get a bunch of them together on a "cruise".
2 weekends back a line of 20 performance cars were coming the other way as I was heading home through the mountains. Every single one cut the centreline into my lane to take a (completely unnecessary, given that their speed was controlled by the car in front) "faster line", although I was plainly in their line of sight. I have difficulty believing that none of them clocked me, two up, with full luggage on a GS.
Nearest I've ever had to a head-on was when an "enthusiast" (read::toss:) in an RS2000 (on an RS2000 cruise as it happened) left his braking waaaaaay to late and drifted not just a bit over the line, but right into my lane, enough to force me onto the gravel at the side of the road. Again, there was no way he hadn't clocked me from the angle of approach. Still, it was a case of :laughat: when 5 minutes later, coming back the other way, I saw his car on its roof in the undergrowth. ;)
* Scoobys and EVOs excepted. Despite their wideboy reputation, I generally find them to be some of the most courteous, quick (whilst remaining perfectly safe) and generally best driven cars on the road. :thumleft:
-Ralph-
14-09-09, 06:24 PM
* Scoobys excepted. Despite their wideboy reputation, I generally find them to be some of the most courteous, quick (whilst remaining perfectly safe) and generally best driven cars on the road. :thumleft:
Wow! Where do you live? I find them to be the most chav and aggressive on the road, and bought by the same kind of people who buy a pit bull terrier 'cos they think it makes them look hard. Massive generalisation and I realise there are plenty of Scooby drivers who are genuine car enthusiasts, but that's sadly a minority in my opinion. Of course, you said yourself "wideboy reputation" and reputations don't just form themselves, no smoke without fire!
Taking CBT and passing my bike test was the best thing I ever did for my 4-wheeled driving, let alone the joy of riding. I noticed that a friend of mine who is a driving instuctor commented on how us bikers "are always looking over our shoulders before doing anything". From what I can remember of my car test many moons ago, I was only taught to do a shoulder check when I pulled off from being stationary. I see plenty of signs saying "think bike" but none telling car drivers to look over their shoulders. I also know plenty of people who've paid the price for going a few mph over the speed limit but none who've paid for not looking over their shoulder, well financially anyway.
Thingus
14-09-09, 10:34 PM
Taking CBT and passing my bike test was the best thing I ever did for my 4-wheeled driving, let alone the joy of riding. I noticed that a friend of mine who is a driving instuctor commented on how us bikers "are always looking over our shoulders before doing anything". ...
Too right :p i'm 10x more wary of dangers on the bike than in the car. I know i'm no:smt059on the bike but we've all seen plenty of coppers who run barely orange lights or overtake you on the motorway at 80 mph. Ride safe and ride legal aren't always the same thing i guess.
Amanda M
15-09-09, 06:49 AM
Wow! Where do you live? I find them to be the most chav and aggressive on the road, and bought by the same kind of people who buy a pit bull terrier 'cos they think it makes them look hard. Massive generalisation and I realise there are plenty of Scooby drivers who are genuine car enthusiasts, but that's sadly a minority in my opinion. Of course, you said yourself "wideboy reputation" and reputations don't just form themselves, no smoke without fire!
Hubby has a scooby and he certainly didn't buy it to look hard. He bought it because he's one of the minority and actually is an enthusiast. There seem to be a lot of them round where we live and they don't generally behave like nutters - it's the little boys in saxos with bodykits that do that. We don't have a pit bull either ;-)
-Ralph-
15-09-09, 08:26 AM
He bought it because he's one of the minority and actually is an enthusiast.
Good man, shame he's in the minority though, the car itself doesn't deserve it's reputation. You can generally tell those who are genuine enthusiasts, firstly 'cos when you pull up next to them they look like normal people instead of chavs, secondly the cars tend to be immaculately clean and original rather than lots of badly fitted mods.
it's the little boys in saxos with bodykits that do that
I've just moved down from Scotland, and there does seem to be less chavvy Scoobys down here and more of the Saxo 'crusin' crowd. Think perhaps the different risk postcode means more chavs (read Neds) can afford the insurance on a Scooby in Scotland, whereas down here they are stuck with Saxo's.
Amanda M
15-09-09, 08:56 AM
I know what you mean about the insurance! It costs him an absolute fortune and he's by no means a kid. His is standard and any mods that might be planned for next year (when he can afford it!) are nothing to do with bodykits and stickers :D
Ceri JC
15-09-09, 09:06 AM
Wow! Where do you live? I find them to be the most chav and aggressive on the road, and bought by the same kind of people who buy a pit bull terrier 'cos they think it makes them look hard.
My claim is based mainly on the ones I see around Cardiff and the outlying area and also the section of M4 between London and Reading (where I seem to see a particularly high number of them), all being being driven well. In particular, they almost always clock me getting ready for an overtake and pull in and indicate for me to pass. The ones I see around Manchester are generally driven fairly poorly mind, so I suppose it is region-specific. On a related note, accident stats rate per-vehicle on the road by model indicate the Ford Escort to be the safest, but in my neck of the woods, they're popular with the chavs and consequently crashed a lot.
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