View Full Version : Racism in the UK in 2011
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 11:39 AM
Is it still a problem?
In Scotland it still is perhaps? Still see big advertising campaigns about it in Scotland. Large coloured communities of the type seen in Birmingham, Bradford, etc, have still to penetrate Scotland, though in the last few years the number of Asian families seen wondering around shopping centres on a Saturday afternoon has been on the increase.
The last census we had in 2001 said 8% of the UK population were members of an Ethnic minority. We are due a census again this year, wonder what that figure will be? 10%? 15%?
Have we actually seen a role reversal where there is more dislike of whites in the established coloured communities, than the other way round?
I'm 35 and I don't know a white person of my age or below who is openly racist.
I do however know some Asian people who seem to have a chip on the shoulder however, and bring up racial differences at times when they weren't even on the radar in my head and I end up thinking "why the **** was that relevant?"
Is there a big problem of racism between ethnic communities, ie: Indians who hate Pakistanis, or vice versa, for no reason other than the creed?
I had reason to sack an Asian employee in a call centre in Birmingham. He pulled the race card and said I was discriminating against him. I asked him to swivel round in his chair and look at the call centre through the glass, where the majority of employees were coloured, and I asked who exactly was he being treated differently to, as a result of colour? Is the racism argument used too much? Or is it still an absolutely valid concern because racist practices are still occurring?
Discuss...
I would not say it's a problem... but nearlly everyone I know makes remarks or comments that would be considered as racist, maybe it's not so openly acceptable as it used to be... but without a doubt it's all over the place.
The worse offenders are the ethnic people themselves... I don't think they can be called minorities anymore.
Paul the 6th
21-01-11, 11:51 AM
well, there was once a time where binky came and stopped at mine for the night, dani (missus) was having a conversation with him about racism, she uttered the immortal line "I'm not racist but..."
binky interrupted her immediately with "AS ANY WELL THOUGHT OUT ARGUMENT ALWAYS STARTS - LET ME TELL YOU THIS..... I'VE GOT A BLACK DAD"
I was in the kitchen on the floor in tears, dani was sat on the sofa looking gobsmacked, and binky had that usual smug grin on his face..
As for whether racism is still an issue, I honestly believe it's down to how people have been brought up. If kids grow up in a house where racism is as acceptable as breathing then I reckon they're most likely set for life to always have 'tainted views' whenever discussion on race/ethnicity/culture comes up. In herited opinions like "They come over here...." or "they take our jobs...." - actually they were born here and you're on the dole right now, so you can't comment pal".
But then I do believe if you go to a country to live permanently, you should make an effort to assimilate with the local community, learn new ways of doing things instead of putting on the blinkers. But then is this getting on an issue of religion instead of race?
The other week when I had to nip into bradford to pick up some supplies, a young asian lad pulled up in a Nissan Pulsar/Sunny GTI-R? (one of them clapped out old japanese cars which still shift like shiz off a shuffle), he rev'd the crap out of his engine at the red light, I glanced across to see what he was doing - he wound down his window and shouted "What the f*** are you looking at you white piece of s***?" - I just smirked and waited for the lights to go green, in hindsight, this annoyed him even more as he tried to get out of his car...
Maybe he wanted to discuss the points raised on last week's question time?
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 11:52 AM
but nearlly everyone I know makes remarks or comments that would be considered as racist
Just for using the phrase "coloured communities" in my OP, I could be labelled as racist.
"Racist" insults are often used as a dig in the ribs between white and coloured friends nowadays, because both parties know it is a joke and they are the best of friends, that's OK.
There is IMO far too much emphasis on language, you shouldn't have to skip around your words to stay on one side of a political line. What's important is the meanings and feelings behind those words.
BigBaddad
21-01-11, 11:52 AM
Is it racism or is a a resentment of large groups of immigrants/migrant workers coming into the country and setting up their own communitiies. People don't like what they don't understand. Add to the pot the media scaring everyone.
Maybe we want a sense of being British (and lets face it I'm English 1st. Plenty of Scotts, Welsh and Irish that are just as patriotic).
I not racist but................lets keep Gingers in Scotland.
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 11:55 AM
she uttered the immortal line "I'm not racist but..."
That is an issue though. We are so quick to label people as racist, just because they hold an opinion that is related to race. So they feel the need to put that disclaimer in first before they feel able to voice that opinion :confused:. I was engaged to a Sri Lankan girl for 6 years, I'm not racist in the slightest, but I have found myself using that expression.
I'm married to a French woman now. There are things that drive me insane about the French sometimes. That doesn't mean I'm racist.
I not racist but................lets keep Gingers in Scotland.
100% Agree ;)
No doubt no one will openly admit to being racist, afterall what even makes someone a racist?
If someone has only ever had negative experiences of a certain type of culture, they may choose to dislike like that culture on fair grounds... that's still technically considered racist though, and they would be shot down in flames and labelled a racist for discussing their negative experiences.
Racist? no but do i resent the way ethnic groups are taking over the uk, yes! Now in many peoples eyes that would make me racist
Paul the 6th
21-01-11, 12:01 PM
That is an issue though. We are so quick to label people as racist, just because they hold an opinion that is related to race. So they feel the need to put that disclaimer in first before they feel able to voice that opinion :confused:. I was engaged to a Sri Lankan girl for 6 years, I'm not racist in the slightest, but I have found myself using that expression.
I'm married to a French woman now. There are things that drive me insane about the French sometimes. That doesn't mean I'm racist.
The definitive joke to demonstrate the different attitudes towards racism:
Englishman, welshman and pakistaniman all go to the hospital to see their new born son's. The midwife gets the three of them together to inform them there's been a mix up and that they're not sure who's baby is who's.
The englishman proclaims that, as this is england, it's his right to go first. He emerges from the delivery suite holding, what is quite obviously the pakistani's son.
The midwife stops him and says "excuse me, but I think you know you've got the wrong baby"
The english man replies: "I know, but one of those two kids in there is welsh, and I'm not taking any chances!"
-------- isn't it a relief when you realise which of your racial prejudices is being pandered to? ;) joke borrowed from Simon Evans originally broadcast on the BBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rojJgcPBpSM)
i think far too many people, such as non-white british, are VERY quick to take the race card.
i was on my bike in birmingham city centre and a taxi driver *private hire* pulled out on me, i stopped just short of his car and screamed and shouted at him calling him a "f**king stupid d**khead taxi driver" and he called me racist and phoned the police.......so i turned off the bike and sat infront of his taxi waiting for the police, he started kicking off at the police as they were both white and accused them of racism and then made a lunge towards me with a small sharp religious item. he was arrested and given a police warning and left at that.
now i beg of you, fellow org'ers, who would like to have guessed the outcome of the situation if i had lunged at the non-white british with a sharp implement?
Paul the 6th
21-01-11, 12:03 PM
100% Agree ;)
No doubt no one will openly admit to being racist, afterall what even makes someone a racist?
If someone has only ever had negative experiences of a certain type of culture, they may choose to dislike like that culture on fair grounds... that's still technically considered racist though, and they would be shot down in flames and labelled a racist for discussing their negative experiences.
Too true G - I can't stand anyone from the northeast of england (sorry Robchester, BriW, berlin, andrew smith etc.) My ex was from the north east and I now I can't stand to hear the accent or go anywhere near the area.
So then. I am a racist :rendeer:
Racist? no but do i resent the way ethnic groups are taking over the uk, yes! Now in many peoples eyes that would make me racist
There are major cities which are essentially majority ethnic, and there are parts of major large cities which you just can't go into without facing some sort of issue.
Bradford, Nottingham, Sheffield, Birmignham, Leicester, etc
This is what causes people concern... again, is that racism, or a fair concern.
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 12:05 PM
No doubt no one will openly admit to being racist, afterall what even makes someone a racist?
IMO, being racist means that you dislike another race as a whole, for fairly shallow reasons, based mainly on creed or cultural practices. And that could simply be the result of ignorance.
If someone has only ever had negative experiences of a certain type of culture, they may choose to dislike like that culture on fair grounds...
I'm not sure that you can dislike a culture on fair grounds, until you have had more exposure than just a few negative experiences. People are individuals, you would need to get to know a few, racism is based upon generalisation.
barwel1992
21-01-11, 12:06 PM
i have a few black friends and to be hones most the things that we think are racist agains them dont actually bother them EG the N word doesn't bother them in the slightest the only thing that i know that does is coloured
most racist things i come across are used as a joke amongst multi race friends
so i think its possible still a problem in the older generations but not so much in the younger ones well thats what it looks like to me.
timwilky
21-01-11, 12:09 PM
My village, to the best of my knowledge there is one asian family, yes you guessed it they run the corner store. Yet a few miles down the road, and you would think you were in Islamabad.
Indian, Chinese, I don't care. So long as they are open.
I live in a town where it's unusual to see ethnic/black/coloured (whatever im meant to call it) people, so when I do I can't help as to notice them and I feel I'm staring and by that, treating them differently. With all the media coverage of 'black youths' and everything you see on TV and in films etc I personally do think I see them differently to white people, although I don't want to.
If I ever go to major city one thing that strikes me is just how many people there are of different ethnicities and I find it slightly uncomfortable. I think that sounds racist to read, but in fact I think it's just me not having the experience of being around such people and the influence of the media making me feel differently towards them.
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 12:10 PM
so i think its possible still a problem in the older generations but not so much in the younger ones well thats what it looks like to me.
+1
Racism against ethnic minorities, I think is well on the way out. But I do think that as a result we are starting to see the racism within ethnic minorities which has been bubbling under the surface.
My village, to the best of my knowledge there is one asian family, yes you guessed it they run the corner store. Yet a few miles down the road, and you would think you were in Islamabad.
Indian, Chinese, I don't care. So long as they are open.
......i'll have a number 27 and two egg fried rice please :rendeer:
timwilky
21-01-11, 12:12 PM
i think far too many people, such as non-white british, are VERY quick to take the race card.
A nurse at the local hospital got in trouble for saying whilst cleaning up an incontinent patient.
The trouble with this place is there are too many chiefs and not enough indians. An indian health care assistant took it to mean there should be more indian staff to do the dirty jobs.
we cant call them indians, they are native americans, all bloody columbus's fault, cant read a bloody map
timwilky
21-01-11, 12:15 PM
I live in a town where it's unusual to see ethnic/black/coloured (whatever im meant to call it) people, so when I do I can't help as to notice them and I feel I'm staring and by that, treating them differently.
when I first started to work in China in the 80s. The gwai lo was a rarity. Whilst most kids would run upto us for a look, it was strange to also have adults doing it. Boot on the other foot I guess
I live in a town where it's unusual to see ethnic/black/coloured (whatever im meant to call it) people, so when I do I can't help as to notice them and I feel I'm staring and by that, treating them differently. With all the media coverage of 'black youths' and everything you see on TV and in films etc I personally do think I see them differently to white people, although I don't want to.
If I ever go to major city one thing that strikes me is just how many people there are of different ethnicities and I find it slightly uncomfortable. I think that sounds racist to read, but in fact I think it's just me not having the experience of being around such people and the influence of the media making me feel differently towards them.
From experience of growing up in east london i am with you on the black youth thing.
Im far more aware and on edge of a group of young black guys than i am of white. Now i know groups of white guys can be scum but this is down to experience aswel as media coverage. Growing up on council estate i knew of stabbings, mugging's, drugs etc etc and they were normally committed by black guys. I had 2 groups of guys try and mug me during my teen years, both groups were black.
your views are moulded from your life experience, altho i know there are loads of groups of white guys that do the same thing im more aware of blacks because my personal experience is of that
but is that racist? i guess to a degree yes it is, your treating someone different due to the colour of their skin
'Come Fly With Me'... combats some ineresting racial sterotypes... Taj the airline assistant getting questioned by Ian Foot the immigration officer.
Then theres a black lady in the coffee shop.
There quite a lot of blacking of the face with shoe polish going on too.
Very amusing. I must be racist lol.
barwel1992
21-01-11, 12:19 PM
+1
Racism against ethnic minorities, I think is well on the way out. But I do think that as a result we are starting to see the racism within ethnic minorities which has been bubbling under the surface.
i agree you see more white english people friends with asians/blacks than you see asians and blacks friends weather thats ethnic tension i dont know but at college's its quite noticeable
From experience of growing up in east london i am with you on the black youth thing.
Im far more aware and on edge of a group of young black guys than i am of white. Now i know groups of white guys can be scum but this is down to experience aswel as media coverage. Growing up on council estate i knew of stabbings, mugging's, drugs etc etc and they were normally committed by black guys. I had 2 groups of guys try and mug me during my teen years, both groups were black.
your views are moulded from your life experience, altho i know there are loads of groups of white guys that do the same thing im more aware of blacks because my personal experience is of that
but is that racist? i guess to a degree yes it is, your treating someone different due to the colour of their skin
That's another thing... You see BREAKING NEWS on BBC or Sky News... there's been a stabbing in London, a shooting in London, a shooting in Nottingham or Manchester.
You can guarantee that it will always be a black community, they don't help themselve.
When that **** goes on every week, people are going to form opinions.
White kids play gangsta, black kids actually get the knives and guns out.
dizzyblonde
21-01-11, 12:40 PM
I have quite a few black and asian friends, most of the asian ones are my work colleagues, and we all work harmoniously with each other. I also have a few Polish friends, now they seem to be the ones that get the jonny foreigner race card thrown at them..not by the younger end of the asian workforce but the older....ie they're taking all our jobs etc.
I don't have a problem with those that wish to live harmoniously with each other, what I don't like is those that make it awkward for that to happen. A lot of time unfortunately it comes from the 'ethnic minority' ( I actually hate that phrase). These people really get my goat.
Peg always says that the Greeks are the most racist group of people on the planet, good job he ain't then, being Cypriot and Scottish, what a mix there.
My closest work colleague bumped into me in Asda a couple of weeks ago, I'd got a copy of film from him and my DVD player rejected it. He asked where I lived, and I said my street and he should know where it is, cause its near etc. He turned round really straight faced, and said
'just cause I'm asian don't mean I know where it is, I aren't a taxi driver you know!'
Well I was mortified, and felt almost embarrassed, his straight face soon bloomed into a massive grin and a roar of laughter. I was relieved to say the least. Luckily we share a friendship as well as just being colleagues.
benji106
21-01-11, 12:41 PM
That's another thing... You see BREAKING NEWS on BBC or Sky News... there's been a stabbing in London, a shooting in London, a shooting in Nottingham or Manchester.
You can guarantee that it will always be a black community, they don't help themselve.
When that **** goes on every week, people are going to form opinions.
White kids play gangsta, black kids actually get the knives and guns out.
That may be true in London, growing up in Liverpool, nearly all the gangs were white lads, the shootings were done by white lads, nearly everytime I got my head kicked in it was white lads. However where I lived was mostly a white area, going into Toxteth a lot of the gangs were black etc. etc. I have not really had any personal experiences that have developed negative impressions of other races. I have found in my personal experience that asians generally seem to be quite poor at time keeping, everytime I have phoned for a taxi and its been an asian driver, the taxi has been late and my asian friends always seem to turn up later than they said they would. That doesnt make me racist it just means that my experience has enforced that stereotype. Like all southerners are pooftas. :eek:
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 12:59 PM
That may be true in London, growing up in Liverpool, nearly all the gangs were white lads, the shootings were done by white lads, nearly everytime I got my head kicked in it was white lads.
You is black init! ;) :lol:
barwel1992
21-01-11, 01:01 PM
That may be true in London, growing up in Liverpool
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff336/net44344/9677.jpg
JamesMio
21-01-11, 01:04 PM
*Disclaimer - THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE ON HERE!
If someone has only ever had negative experiences of
a certain type of culture, they may choose to dislike like that culture on fair grounds...
Having lost both his parents at Auschwitz, then spending years in one of Hitler's POW camps, my (Polish) Grandad has every right to, shall we say, hold not exactly the rosiest of views on Germany and it's people.
But, he's never ushered a negative word about the Germans (certainly not in my company or to my knowledge) for as long as I can remember.
Any hatred or ill feeling towards Germans he would have had in the past is no longer vaild. It's a completely different Germany today than it was 70 years ago, and he accepts that.
Anyway, my point.
Now, if HE's able to take a viewpoint like that, it's taught me to put into some form of perspective all the complete and utter racist bile (from all sides I might add) that's so common place today.
I don't understand racism, never have, and the same goes for religious conflict, morons at Old Firm football games and so on.
So many people should really just have a long, hard look at themselves, grow up and get on with it, for f**k sake!
*Disclaimer - THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE ON HERE!
dizzyblonde
21-01-11, 01:09 PM
Bit like my gran, she just laughs at people taking the mick out of the Gerrys, being German herself. She could take a disliking to Russians... as they turfed her family out of their farm durung wartime when she lived in what was Prussia... but she don't.
I don't understand racism, never have, and the same goes for religious conflict, morons at Old Firm football games and so on.
Agreed 100%
Is racism a problem in the UK in 2011? Yes.
Is it specific to any age group, i.e. under 35/over 35? No.
My sister was adopted in by my parents in 1964. She's Asian, and all through school I saw at first hand all aspects of it. Being 5 yrs older than her I left school first, and went away to uni, at which point the level of Racism escalated further - it was sorted when I returned for the summer.
Down through the years I've continued to see it, and hear the stories.
Last year, pre-election, me and Barbs were out with my sis and her hubby when the BNP came into our local where we've drank for years, and known pretty much everyone in there. The BNP crowd had people of all ages but what was even sadder was many of our 'friends' did nowt nor said nowt in our defence when things started to kick off, and it got very messy. And then you get the numpty friend who says "but you're really one of us."
I think some people say they're not racists but if push came to shove, where they draw the line is different to where others may draw the line.
And like Ralph, I've had the Race card pulled on me and I just about wet myself laughing. I did suggest he makes a formal complaint, and I'd bring my sister along as a character witness.
Whatever many people believe of our society, non-racist it isn't.
Dad's a Turk, mums English. 100% Anglicised.
I have got one of those funny, foreign type names, a proper Turk tach and a love of kebabs. But that is all I got from my dad.
My opinion is simple. When in England obey the laws, don't try and change my country, don't play the race card, don't expect more than anyone else gets, don't spilt on the floor, don't wear funny clothes (especially around your face), don't expect me to adopt your values, language, customs or religion, don't put signs up in anything except English, learn to read and write English, don't come to England to claim asylum.
Do the above and I don't care what colour you are.
We have been too tolerant and people have been taking the P155.
Why don't Pakistan have a football team? Because every time they get a corner they want to put a shop on it.
*Disclaimer - THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE ON HERE!
Having lost both his parents at Auschwitz, then spending years in one of Hitler's POW camps, my (Polish) Grandad has every right to, shall we say, hold not exactly the rosiest of views on Germany and it's people.
But, he's never ushered a negative word about the Germans (certainly not in my company or to my knowledge) for as long as I can remember.
Any hatred or ill feeling towards Germans he would have had in the past is no longer vaild. It's a completely different Germany today than it was 70 years ago, and he accepts that.
Anyway, my point.
Now, if HE's able to take a viewpoint like that, it's taught me to put into some form of perspective all the complete and utter racist bile (from all sides I might add) that's so common place today.
I don't understand racism, never have, and the same goes for religious conflict, morons at Old Firm football games and so on.
So many people should really just have a long, hard look at themselves, grow up and get on with it, for f**k sake!
*Disclaimer - THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE ON HERE!
That' in my opinion is historical racism on a much larger scale, this is the sort or racism that no longer is a problem... However, using paulthe6th's example.
If you are a random, and go to bradford twice a week to visit a friend, and everytime you go you get abuse directed at you (essentially racial abuse because you are white and don't fit in to that particular area because you are white)... then you may, rightly or wrongly, form an opinion of dislike for the ethnic group that mainly occupies the area making it so unwelcoming.
I would wager that being country bumpkin, you may not experience it as much as others. I know that whenever I venture north of the pennines the ethnic count drops significantly.
yorkie_chris
21-01-11, 01:45 PM
My Grandad was also Polish, basically turfed out of Poland by the outbreak of war and unable to return there due to the strong likelihood of being persecuted by the communists, was resettled here in Halifax after the war. Had a long, hardworking, productive life here. So I find it hard to side with the "they took our jobs" line.
I don't think any group coming here and being seen to be taking already scarce jobs will ever get a warm reception.
But then again, I wouldn't even call that racism, just competition for resources.
Proper racism, well I think everyone has forgotten the meaning of it. The rulemakers of "political correctness" would have the feeling that to merely utter some phrase would make you a racist. Which is clearly ridiculous to the same level of the Python sketch "everybody stop saying Jehova!"
Racism among Whites is dieing out, the casual "never trust an indian" "all arabs are lazy" is rarely there, what is alive and well is a dislike and suspicion of large groups of ethnics together. You won't find a White man here in Halifax who considers themselves truly part of the same society as the asians of Bradford or even other parts of Halifax, it's not religious, they don't associate with us, work with us, eat the same, dress the same, talk the same.
So where your White man now doesn't mind working alongside or even employing an asian*, and the vehement overtly racist and national socialist leaning movements are dieing off, it's still an unnerving experience to drive, and scary to walk in these places.
Racism the other way around is alive and well, from a minority of asians, though I'm fairly confident it's this minorities lukewarm IQ which leads them to insert the word "white" into any ill contrived insult they may manage to articulate rather than any particular dislike for the White race as a whole.
Excluding the open hostility from the lower primates in their clapped out tinted-window bangers with alloys on, I'd say more racism comes from 'their' side than ours, whether that be a funny look or complete ignorance of you if walking past one in the street.
*The real racism is the system, and it's mental. Companies questioned on if they're employing enough minorities etc. You wouldn't see a company getting even asked about it for not employing enough Brits.
dizzyblonde
21-01-11, 01:55 PM
I have got one of those funny, foreign type names, a proper Turk tach and a love of kebabs. But that is all I got from my dad.
.
My son has one of those funny foreign type names too, I'm quite proud of him bearing his fathers name, as hes one of only a couple of people with that name in the UK.I roll my eyes whenever people ask where it is from, or even ask how to say it...I sometimes wonder where they think its from being a Hadji****
Racism among Whites is dieing out, the casual "never trust an indian" "all arabs are lazy" is rarely there,
I don't trust Greeks bearing gifts lol
Biker Biggles
21-01-11, 02:31 PM
Racism or tribalism has been part of the normal human condition throughout history so why should the last thirty years have resulted in a complete about turn?It has been hidden to some extent by education and affluence but its always there just below the surface waiting to emerge.If you look at German history prior to Hitler or Yugoslavia prior to partition you would not have predicted what then happened,so why should things be different anywhere else?
We may be quite capable of overcoming this at individual level or even locally,but when resources get tight and communities or nations start to compete to stay alive,watch how people react as the basic instincts come to the fore.Nothing really changes.
I was in South Africa over christmas and learnt a lot about the apartheid and how screwed over the black people got, there rights neglected, homes destroyed and many murdered.
I suppose that must make every white person a raping pillaging murdering racist scumbag! Or mayb just cos person x of a race does something, it doesnt mean u should prejudge every subsequent person you meet from that race.
Those here mentioning that crimes they see black people committing on the news should ask themselves if they think thats to do with race or socio-economic differences. why do these differences still exist even though society and people dont see themselves as racist. Simply look at the stats regarding income distribution between blacks and whites in america, and the differences in homicide rates.
racism is always borne out of ignorance and stupidity. there are always bad apples.
gruntygiggles
21-01-11, 02:50 PM
Well, I grew up in an area where there were no families that weren't white British until I was about 8. Then a black family moved into our street and I will admit, it was a big deal at the time because it was something we weren't used to. It didn't take long though.
When we had the first Chinese take away, everyone would say, "fancy a chinky tonight". When we started getting asian taxi drivers, they would be referred to as "pakis" and so on. We just didn't know any different and there was never any malice or ill feeling behind it. To our community, they were just other people moving in. We referred to them as pakis and chinkys the same way as we referred to the white people on the "bad" estate and pill rowers or the people that lived on wentwood drive as snobs...lol.
Leaving there and spreading my wings, I began to realise they were maybe not the best terms to use. When Dan first moved in, it was like a culture shock just listening to him talk about his life as a kid as he grew up in manchester and had just as many asian friends as he did white friends and they all get along the same. I have now come to love some of those friends and when Omar comes to visit, we go shopping together while Dan is working and will sit in Cabot Circus with a coffee people watching and having a good old gossip. Through getting to know people below skin deep, any generalisations I may have had have mostly gone.
What I say is..."I'm not racist...I'm d**kheadist" Therefore...if you act like a nob...I'll treat you like a nob and it makes no difference to me where you're from or what colour your skin is.
Actually, living in Bristol, the groups of people that I found most intimidating were the young white lads on scooters!
Yes, racism is still around and yes, from what I have learned, there is racism between other races as well, but I don't see that it will ever change.
JamesMio
21-01-11, 03:25 PM
I would wager that being country bumpkin, you may not experience it as much as others.
A fair point, diluted slightly by me originating from Liverpool and spending 4 years living in Edinburgh, but a reasonably accurate of many around these parts.
Dicky Ticker
21-01-11, 03:26 PM
Not a problem to me if they accept that this is our country and integrate into society------if they don't then it is not me that has racist undertones
P.S If a Scotsman is a Jock,Irishman a Paddy and a Welshman a Taffy why cant I call a Pakistani a
Paki
davepreston
21-01-11, 03:28 PM
basicly i dont care, if your a **** i'll call you a ****, if your sound i'll have a pint with you, ive worked with mates from all over ,jamica, napal, fiji , pakistan ,some ive liked some ive thought were ******s, if you did your job fine if ya didnt feck off
now for the giggle "im a ethnic minority" lmao yes im a paddy a imagrant to this fair isle, my people have suffered racism to a mass scale (70's 80's 90's) and you know what who gives a ****, ive been treated fairly well here and have made a life for myself, i dont pull the race/creed card cos i thing its bull and bandered about far to easily, tbh i think if people stopped banging on about it so much it would lessen
i dont care what colour you are or what deyity you worship i will eat ,drink or fight you depending on the situation, because lets be honest no race colour or creed as stamped out some people needing a slap
ThEGr33k
21-01-11, 03:45 PM
Im not racist, im viewist.
carelesschucca
21-01-11, 03:49 PM
P.S If a Scotsman is a Jock,Irishman a Paddy and a Welshman a Taffy why cant I call a Pakistani a
Paki
I've always thought that!!! But lets be honest they're all forms of racism... But then I'm happy to say I'm a Scot coming from Scotland, and doesn't stan translate to land... just a though :)
Me personnally I'm not racist, I'm a misogynist, specially if they're in the armed forces and pregnant. Suppose they're the ones that keep me in a job and gainfully employed.
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 03:58 PM
Is racism a problem in the UK in 2011? Yes.
Is it specific to any age group, i.e. under 35/over 35? No.
My sister was adopted in by my parents in 1964. She's Asian, and all through school I saw at first hand all aspects of it. Being 5 yrs older than her I left school first, and went away to uni, at which point the level of Racism escalated further - it was sorted when I returned for the summer.
Down through the years I've continued to see it, and hear the stories.
I understand what you're saying about it not being age specific, but you've used an example of a school in the 60's & 70's, when racism was rife in this country.
Do you still think that racism is a problem in schools and universities today? I don't mean a very small stupid minority gang that have decided they want to support the BNP, I'm talking about racism to a level where it becomes a problem.
I know for instance that Catholic / Protestant sectarianism is still a problem within schools in some areas, but I was under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that traditional racism against ethnic minority groups, had all but disappeared at that age group.
benji106
21-01-11, 03:58 PM
P.S If a Scotsman is a Jock,Irishman a Paddy and a Welshman a Taffy why cant I call a Pakistani a
Paki
Never really understood this, more to the point British = Brits, Australians = Ozzies, Scottish = Scots, so surely Pakistani - Paki is just the same. I asked a Pakistani friend and he said its because in the past Paki has been used as a negative term, personally I cant see how it can be insulting its just a shortened version of the full proper term for someone from Pakistan but if they dont want to be called that then fine.
i'm not racist i just hate everyone lol
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 03:59 PM
Like I said earlier, IMO attributing racism to language is a load of bull. It's the sentiment behind that language that matters.
I'm not racist I'm choose-ist and i choose not to like whomever.
to me it's PC gone mad anf you can't say this and you can't say that in case somebody gets offended. and most of the time its a whit civil servant assuming that another person will be offended
I've had it all my life and i hate to say it but for me its getting worse. Any complaints I try to make - it ain't racism cos i'm white british and we don't suffer racism - its all in jest!
I'm the first to take digs at the english and still have the perinnal argument of I'm I english or scottish because i sound like neither!.
I have had the race card thrown at me when throwing someone out of my london pub. Of course i wanted him out because he was black and not for throwing a glass at a member of my staff! I do think its a minoirity that think they can throw that card. a lot of the younger ones are not so bothered with it well not round here.
its biggotry we got the problem with and thats never going to go away! Just don't get me on the religious schools!!
yorkie_chris
21-01-11, 04:03 PM
I understand what you're saying about it not being age specific, but you've used an example of a school in the 60's & 70's, when racism was rife in this country.
Do you still think that racism is a problem in schools and universities today? I don't mean a very small stupid minority that have decided they want to support the BNP, I'm talking about racism to a level where it becomes a problem.
I know for instance that Catholic / Protestant sectarianism is still a problem within schools in some areas, but I was under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that traditional racism against ethnic minority groups, had all but disappeared at that age group.
A lot of the "racist" incidents that are recorded as such aren't even race related anyway.
For example, 'stani kid and white kid have a fight, white kid calls him a black b*stard in the ensuing fisticuffs. A teacher would treat that as racist... but if they were fighting over something else it's nowt to do with race.
Pedrosa
21-01-11, 04:05 PM
I like people of other cultures, especially their chicks even more so if they are chocolate skinned. Am I racist? (Some of them there Indian,Pakistani girls are amazingly gorgeous!)
yorkie_chris
21-01-11, 04:06 PM
So long as they had a shave that morning :-P
Never really understood this, more to the point British = Brits, Australians = Ozzies, Scottish = Scots, so surely Pakistani - Paki is just the same. I asked a Pakistani friend and he said its because in the past Paki has been used as a negative term, personally I cant see how it can be insulting its just a shortened version of the full proper term for someone from Pakistan but if they dont want to be called that then fine.
i may be wrong, but i do believe this sort of thing eg. british = brits etc also sprung about the use of the N word during the slave trade as alot of people were snatched from the Niger region of Africa, i may be wrong but sure ive read it somewhere,
but one thing that gets me, is on all job applications and pretty much everything you have to fill in, they say "equal opportunities, please tell us what you would class yourself as:
white british
etc etc etc"
now, if its equal opportunities, why should we have to say, it should be on our own merit, if your not good at a job, you dont get it, regardless of race/colour/creed or religion.
i
but one thing that gets me, is on all job applications and pretty much everything you have to fill in, they say "equal opportunities, please tell us what you would class yourself as:
white british
etc etc etc"
now, if its equal opportunities, why should we have to say, it should be on our own merit, if your not good at a job, you dont get it, regardless of race/colour/creed or religion.
simple don't fill it in. i've kick up fus before because a form had white british, white scot, white welsh and white irish. It was assumed that if you were english you classed your self as british?
i think paki's is just an insulting term here. I know in America it's not, heck even Bush used it in a public speech without realising. Just how afghanistanis are afghan.
The thing is, paki said in an american accent sounds so much more acceptable for some reason than the kid down the estate shouting out paaaki in his cockney accent (especially when it's usually preceded by 'effin). That said, paki shouldn't really be considered a racist term.
I like people of other cultures, especially their chicks even more so if they are chocolate skinned. Am I racist? (Some of them there Indian,Pakistani girls are amazingly gorgeous!)
In America, their 'equivalent' so to speak (even though the US is a cultural mixing pot) are the hispanics. If only the British empire was more involved with mexico and brazil than india and it's sub-continent eh?
hindle8907
21-01-11, 04:24 PM
So long as they had a shave that morning :-P
:smt082
Im not Racist, the Asians in my local shop are allrite actually, even get tick off them have a bit of banter with the ones that can speak actually English.
*The real racism is the system, and it's mental. Companies questioned on if they're employing enough minorities etc. You wouldn't see a company getting even asked about it for not employing enough Brits.
The reason being, there would be no reason for the latter in this country. Asking companies to employ a set amount of ethnic minorities is sad in it's own right as it shows the ever present racist bias in employment and career opportunities. The very fact these policies are even implemented highlights this.
see this article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3013280.stm
If it happens in the NHS, I can imagine it happens everywhere. And this is probably true of any country, which is a shame, cos we should be able to see past skin colour and hire the best man/woman for the job. But as long as 'institutionally racist' organisations exist, then policies will be implemented to negate that - the irony is that in order to fill quotas, a company may not necessarily be picking the right person for the job anyway. It's a catch 22.
Specialone
21-01-11, 04:36 PM
My views are somewhat a little out there but the ones I will post are as a result of my experiences and those of others that have shared theirs.
In brum city in the 80's , you were careful where you went on a Saturday cos the Rastas used to go round on gangs in the bull ring, they frequently fought with White gangs, so racism from them was obvious.
I have worked with many Asians, on the whole, most have been pretty decent tbh, some have been c**ts, but from my own opinions of the people I've met, ive preferred Indians cos they have been harder workers, more open to change when faced with it, much more peaceful also.
My last company had about 50 Asians at one point or another, loads of fights between Indians and pakistanis, very racist towards each other.
Now being self employed, I work for a lot of different people, but without question the most problems I have had have been with pakistanis.
They don't wanna pay what you quoted, the houses are dirtier to work on, they don't wanna talk to you and never offer a drink.
My brother moved to Scotland 2 years ago u
Into an area with very few other nationalities, he has suffered racism there, which is suprising considering he was a cop for 30 years and didn't take **** from anyone.
An Indian bloke told me a story about a Pakistani moving to his village in India and him changing his name because he knew he would get abuse and spat at had the village knew he was a Pakistani.
In brum, the blacks and Asians don't get on at all, they are very racist towards each other, it kicked off a few years ago about a black girl who was raped by some Asians, riot ensued, innocent black kid stabbed to death by a group of Asians on his way home from the cinema.
On the whole, I will be friendly with anyone, regardless of race, but racism in all forms is present in all corners of the globe, it's human nature.
What does wind me up is immigration, I don't care what race they are from, I want most of them to bugger off home, this country is too small for the amount of people here and we are losing our identity and I feel like a minority at times.
Finally, a good mate of mine when we were kids was of Maltese origin, he looked a bit Asian, when the local shop was took over by Asians he sprayed on the shop shutters ' pakis go home', he got caught and couldn't even explain why he did it, did make me laugh though :)
The reason being, there would be no reason for the latter in this country. Asking companies to employ a set amount of ethnic minorities is sad in it's own right as it shows the ever present racist bias in employment and career opportunities. The very fact these policies are even implemented highlights this.
see this article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3013280.stm
If it happens in the NHS, I can imagine it happens everywhere. And this is probably true of any country, which is a shame, cos we should be able to see past skin colour and hire the best man/woman for the job. But as long as 'institutionally racist' organisations exist, then policies will be implemented to negate that - the irony is that in order to fill quotas, a company may not necessarily be picking the right person for the job anyway. It's a catch 22.
What they don't say in this article is the positive discrimination that is going on in the NHS. Certain places are available for black and asians to further their careers, nothing for the whities. Also in regard to the job applications, the NHS get inundated from non EU applicants trying to get a work permit when their qualifications are not valid (tier 2). The additional cost of employing from non EU is huge. I wouldn't mind going to Las Vegas (fully paid) for a job interview if it cost me nothing. Even if I knew I wouldn't get the job.
I understand what you're saying about it not being age specific, but you've used an example of a school in the 60's & 70's, when racism was rife in this country.
Do you still think that racism is a problem in schools and universities today? I don't mean a very small stupid minority gang that have decided they want to support the BNP, I'm talking about racism to a level where it becomes a problem.
I know for instance that Catholic / Protestant sectarianism is still a problem within schools in some areas, but I was under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that traditional racism against ethnic minority groups, had all but disappeared at that age group.
I can't say one way ot t'other if its a problem in schools but equally I wouldn't say a "very small minority gang" is acceptable either. Is it acceptable to have a minority ethnic group subjected to racism just because its a minority group being racist?
It was a dysfunctional society in Germany in the 1920's-30's that allowed a minority party to bully their way into power. No, it probably won't happen here but not so long ago the BNP didn't have Councillers, or MEP's.
There is a (small) elephant in the room called the BNP, and ignoring it or allowing it carry on as it does because its only hurting a minority doesn't make it ok.
The racism also exists from those ethnic minority groups towards the wasps. I was working in Bradford not so long back, and was advised by the hotel reception that I was the wrong colour to be going out in the city centre of an evening.
Specialone
21-01-11, 04:57 PM
Actually Nhs recruitment 10 or so years ago in brum, went to the Philippines to recruit, they got free nurse accommodation and expenses to move here, when uk nurses were fighting to get better wages cos they couldn't survive, stinks IMO.
Wifes just reminded me about the sign on lamp posts in small Heath in brum, no whites after 7pm.
That place is downtown bagdad, rather eat my own waste than go down there anyway.
What they don't say in this article is the positive discrimination that is going on in the NHS.
there is a reason why positive discrimination exists in the first place.
Certain places are available for black and asians to further their careers, nothing for the whities. Also in regard to the job applications, the NHS get inundated from non EU applicants trying to get a work permit when their qualifications are not valid (tier 2).
non eu, foreign workers is another issue. We're talking about people being born here, have passports etc, but the only thing differing is name and colour. If then there is discrimination, that's an issue. UK residents should get priority to UK jobs though, as should others from their respective countries.
there is a reason why positive discrimination exists in the first place.
Please enlighten me.
..............We're talking about people being born here, have passports etc, but the only thing differing is name and colour...................
I thought the OP was about racism not country of birth!
On the back of an Aussie newspaper a few years back, "we're going Pommie bashing." Racist? Don't be silly.
The same newspaper later in the summer, "we're going Paki bashing." Racist?... Depends how you've been brought up I guess.
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 05:16 PM
I wouldn't say a "very small minority gang" is acceptable either
Of course it's not, they should be stamped out, but just because a gang of 2 or 3 bullies exist and need to be dealt with, that doesn't mean the school as a whole has a wider problem of bullying. In the 60's and 70's schools as a whole did have a problem, ethnic minorities were widely bullied, as was the case with your sister. The question I was asking was on a general level, you will get individual bad eggs wherever you go.
Please enlighten me.
this
Asking companies to employ a set amount of ethnic minorities is sad in it's own right as it shows the ever present racist bias in employment and career opportunities. The very fact these policies are even implemented highlights this.
somewhere down the line, ethnic minorities realised they were being under represented wotever field/job. This can either be because they are always cra-pper at doing the job than the white man, or it's because on some subconscious pyschological level, someone will employ their racial equivalent when all else is equal. It would be naieve not to think this happens in every country in the world, let alone this one.
I thought the OP was about racism not country of birth!
I meant in terms of NHS/non eu states you mentioned. I don't believe it is racist to give priority to residents/graduates of this country. It is racist however if the brit born black is better than the brit born white, and the white gets the job. That's the point I was making about country of residence/nationality, etc.
mcgrimes
21-01-11, 05:26 PM
As soon as i saw the title of this thread, i knew it'd quickly take off! I've not read any but the first pages yet, but no doubt it'll explode!
Im not racist, but i call everyone and anything. What really winds me up is how i'm unable to differentiate between someone with black skin and someone with white skin without being labelled racist.
People say im white, but i darn't call someone black!
Racism is the majority just some PC ******** sat at the top making a fuss. Don't get me wrong, racism can be an issue, and it isn't acceptable to treat anyone the way some people do.
Also, would you rather be called by the colour of your skin or labeled as Disabled? I think to label someone as disabled is far more demeaning than many insults used regarding colour of skin.
Thanks Ralph, youve set me off again...
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 05:28 PM
Thanks Ralph, youve set me off again...
:lol: Anytime mate ;)
mcgrimes
21-01-11, 05:30 PM
Asking companies to employ a set amount of ethnic minorities is sad in it's own right as it shows the ever present racist bias in employment and career opportunities. The very fact these policies are even implemented highlights this.
Dont get me started on 'positive discrimination'.
Positive discrimination is just a form of negative discrimination towards another population.
To hire someone on the basis of the colour of skin is almost 100% wrong.
Soft liberal academics created the concept of positive discrimination. This is before they went home to their country estates. This gives rise to the race card and the costs associated with it. Best person for the job is my belief.
As for racism per se, no amount of legislation will get rid of it, just drive it underground. As said here previously, your own experiences and upbringing will steer your thoughts as to your relationship of anything "minority".
I don't understand any of this tribalism, race stuff. I don't think of myself as white, British, English or anything, I am just a bloke going about his business trying to have more good days than bad days before I am but in a box and set on fire or buried in some mud. I expect most people in every other country across the world are doing exactly the same thing.
To fight with someone just because they live on another side of an imaginary line to me is insanity. I have met people from different religions, races and nationalities, some I liked more than others but neve made my mind up until I had got to know them.
I think a lot of people just need to chill out and get on with thier lives.
mcgrimes
21-01-11, 05:43 PM
I don't understand any of this tribalism, race stuff. I don't think of myself as white, British, English or anything, I am just a bloke going about his business trying to have more good days than bad days before I am but in a box and set on fire or buried in some mud.
Agreed, i know many people from many races/religions/communties, and i could not really care less how they live their lives provided it never intertwines with mine in a negative way.
I despise the differences created with regards to race/religion, especially the latter. I do have beliefs, but i dont class myself to any particular religion; im not the same a anyone else.
As i mentioned earlier, i dont discriminate against any particular groups, but against pretty much everyone. I absolutely hate the general public; i find them irritating, stupid and smelly. And believe me, if anyone pulls and endangers my life whilst i ride my SV, regardless of colour, origin, beliefs; just prepare to be offended.
Of course it's not, they should be stamped out, but just because a gang of 2 or 3 bullies exist and need to be dealt with, that doesn't mean the school as a whole has a wider problem of bullying. In the 60's and 70's schools as a whole did have a problem, ethnic minorities were widely bullied, as was the case with your sister. The question I was asking was on a general level, you will get individual bad eggs wherever you go.
If you look at the voting patterns in recent years, and the fact that the BNP now have people in elected positions, I'd say the one or two bad eggs equate to several thousand in certain areas of the UK.
The trend in voting shows its on the increase, not the decrease. It may well go in cycles, e.g. the kids that were kicking off in the 60's & 70's produced kids that learn from their parents and are kicking off now. But that doesn't take into account the changes in edumakation, nor the increased immigration.
I would be inclined to think that racism is on the increase, courtesy of the media fuelled hype on immigration, but also that the type of racism is actually changing because of the perception that immigration is harming the country, and that some immigrants appear to refuse to integrate, or accept the traditional British way of life, or are here for the benefits culture.
As for multiculturalism... its the wimps word for the dilution of the British traditional way of life, like a pint of Cobra with my Bhuna ;).
I would be inclined to think that racism is on the increase, courtesy of the media fuelled hype on immigration, but also that the type of racism is actually changing because of the perception that immigration is harming the country, and that some immigrants appear to refuse to integrate, or accept the traditional British way of life, or are here for the benefits culture.
As for multiculturalism... its the wimps word for the dilution of the British traditional way of life, like a pint of Cobra with my Bhuna ;).
Is that racism or patriotism?
Looking after home first.
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 07:08 PM
I would be inclined to think that racism is on the increase, courtesy of the media fuelled hype on immigration, but also that the type of racism is actually changing because of the perception that immigration is harming the country, and that some immigrants appear to refuse to integrate, or accept the traditional British way of life, or are here for the benefits culture
I'd certainly agree that the excuse used for the racism is changing as a result of the immigration perception.
Racism increasing? I'm not seeing that in my walk of life, but the path I am walking nowadays is relatively sheltered, so I don't know, one of the reasons I started this thread was to open that to a wider audience and see what the consensus of opinion was amongst others who may be more exposed, or may still feel they are on the receiving end.
-Ralph-
21-01-11, 07:09 PM
Is that racism or patriotism?
Looking after home first.
Or simply holding an opinion on the politics? Because somebody doesn't agree with some of the immigration policies, doesn't make them racist.
I think every single human being without fail probably has some sort of misconstrued or ignorant view about some other culture somewhere out there in the world, past or present.
Acting upon this in a discriminatory fashion is what makes a racist imo, and most people don't. But, if there is one thing the rise of the Nazi party taught us is that when times are really difficult in a country and the economy is failing in a fragile melting pot, people's welcoming views of other race's may not last very long.
I miss seeing golliwogs on jars of Robertson's jam. Breakfast just isn't the same since racism was invented.
I miss seeing golliwogs on jars of Robertson's jam. Breakfast just isn't the same since racism was invented.
And the black and white minstrel show on tv.
I'd certainly agree that the excuse used for the racism is changing as a result of the immigration perception.
Racism increasing? I'm not seeing that in my walk of life, but the path I am walking nowadays is relatively sheltered, so I don't know, one of the reasons I started this thread was to open that to a wider audience and see what the consensus of opinion was amongst others who may be more exposed, or may still feel they are on the receiving end.
You may be right about the increasing/decreasing?? Maybe views on it are polarising, where certain sections are more welcoming but other more the other way.
how do you blindfold a chinese person?
dentalfloss
husky03
21-01-11, 07:42 PM
yes racism is thriving in the uk in my opinion-racism, sexism,maritalstatusism etc all on the increase-i'm a victim of all the above and more! why?-because i'm a white hetro sexual married male, if i go for a job or house etc and i'm up against a non white,gay,single no ties,lesbian, left wing non hair washing, penis owning but not wanting it wanna be a woman type "thingy" i can bet you they'll get it before me.
is it racist if you wish to live your life in an environment where you only live with people who look like you and share the same beliefs?if you choose to live in a community where everyone is white or black etc because it makes you feel more comfortable and results in increased happiness is it racism?
I hate Pakistanis - really I do, but in my defence I hate Indians, Israelis, Palestinians, Chinese, Japanese, Germans, Greeks, Yanks, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, French, Russians... in fact I hate them all, every single bloody nation in the world, including the Maltese. It's not racism, it's just a sociopathic condition.
Racism is alive and kicking in the UK, but it's alive and kicking in every nation you care to travel to. I have travelled quite a bit in my life, and while the white British can be perceived as racist, generally it's ignorance. True racism is apparent usually amongst the indigenous population towards incomers and economic migrants.
You want to see proper racism? Go to any arab country and see how the asian construction workers are treated there, it really is shocking. The worst of the lot have to be the Japanese though, I have never come across a more xenophobic and openly racist people.
The Idle Biker
21-01-11, 10:05 PM
I agree, I had to spend 3 months there once for work and I hated every minute of it. Bizarre country, wierd people who even treat their own people like dhags. They don't know where the feck they are in their cultural identity anymore and in turn they treat everyone else like a bad smell in a lift. I went there open minded and left hating them, they turned me into a racist godammit.
Our town has a lot of Eastern European's in it. One street has been nicknamed by the local's Little Poland. When one of the shops put up a sign 'No English' then you can't help but feel sour towards them, as they don't help themselves with things like that.
keith_d
21-01-11, 10:33 PM
I not racist. I just hate eyeties, chinks, niggers, pakis, dagos, wops, yids, nips, towelheads, slavs, ragheads, yanks, jocks, paddys, welsh, frogs, krauts, the english and racists.
But seriously, over the last million years or so a sense of tribal identity has been a key survival attribute. We're not going to eradicate that in a couple of generations. Here in the richer parts of the world, education and affluence have greatly reduced it's effect. But another great depression could give parties like the BNP fresh impetus to stir up the tribal instinct.
Just my thoughts,
Keith.
punyXpress
21-01-11, 10:47 PM
Saddest day when the Raxe relations Act showed its face under Harold Wilson, spawning the race relations industry which has done untold harm to all sides in this.
A distant relative ( from luckypants' neck of the wood ) took the mighty BBC to court over them airing " Taffy was a Welshman, etc. " AND WON!
Specialone
21-01-11, 10:48 PM
Just heard on local news, white children only account for 48% in birmingham schools, by 2024 that will also be for adults as well.
FFS, we wont have a country left at this rate, and we worry about the BNP :confused:
Bluefish
21-01-11, 10:55 PM
Saddest day when the Raxe relations Act showed its face under Harold Wilson, spawning the race relations industry which has done untold harm to all sides in this.
A distant relative ( from luckypants' neck of the wood ) took the mighty BBC to court over them airing " Taffy was a Welshman, etc. " AND WON!
well he wasn't likely to be a jock was he.
kaivalagi
22-01-11, 09:38 AM
Just heard on local news, white children only account for 48% in birmingham schools, by 2024 that will also be for adults as well.
FFS, we wont have a country left at this rate, and we worry about the BNP :confused:
Our country is made up of lots of colours and just because a particular area of the country has a smaller proportion of whites it doesn't mean it is any less British...I bet most non whites in your area are second generation British atleast......I'm not sure you meant it to come out the way it did? Did I mis-understand?
Sorry if I come across as a little sensitive , but I have my reasons. My wife is Fijian and dark in colour (Melanesian) and we have a 7 year old son and baby girl on the way. We lived together in Fiji for 4 years and moved back to the UK in 2004. I've seen enough awkward behaviour ("passive racism" I guess you could call it) in the Norwich area and have had to console my wife enough times (in the early days) when she couldn't take anymore of the looks and stares she was getting. When you are walking down the street with your wife and you get this claustrophobic feeling that everyone is looking at you, at first thinking your paranoid, but after a while realising your not, it is a little disconcerting to say the least. Now luckily that is the worst it has got, there has been no directed anger etc yet...
Interestingly, in contrast, when I was living and working in Fiji it was completely different. Although there is some angst between indigenous and indo populations in places (more about land and money and cultural clashes really), racism is not even on the agenda for the most part, people might make a remark that could be taken as racist here but no one cares there, there is a greater love and respect for all if you know what I mean. As the only white guy in the community, living up in the hills for quite some time, I felt part of the gang and was no way ever made to feel like I was an outsider...go figure!
I think there is just too much talk about racism and this idea of politically correct behaviour carp is getting out of control, with the media pushing it too hard, and law in general making too much of it all.
If everyone was to just get on with life, and not be afraid to approach one another because of the negative hype, wouldn't things be so much better...?
Specialone
22-01-11, 10:08 AM
Dude, perhaps you did take my post the wrong way or I posted incorrectly.
But come live in one of these areas where the White population is a minority, just see how much racism you receive, I bet you'd change your opinion in a heart beat.
I know it's human nature, bur they make zero effort to integrate, they overwhelm an area so it forces whites out, then their area expands and expands so it becomes a big problem.
I challenge anyone to live in a predominately Asian area if not Asian themselves, it just wouldn't be pleasant I can assure you.
No shops stock British goods, all Asian, I understand if your target customer base is Asian then you'd have no need to.
Like or loathe it, there will always be a them and us, it's the way we are programmed, they don't want to integrate the same way all the ex pats in Spain etc mostly live in British communities over there, it's a comfort zone.
My point about the bnp is they are seen as right wing radicals, you don't think there is a bigger problem with Muslim extremists in these areas ?
Every single terrorist incident, the suspects have mostly come from Birmingham, Leicester or Bradford all high Asian predominate areas.
Btw I don't consider myself racist, I can get on with anyone who isn't a c**t, but I don't want to feel like a minority in my own country, especially in the area I grew up in.
Sorry if my views offend, they're not meant to.
timwilky
22-01-11, 10:15 AM
Racism is a load of bollox, Firstly I am not British. I object to the term and never tick that box. I am English, why should I be associated with sweats, sheep sh*ggers or spade humpers.
My brother was attacked in an Edinburgh pub for being a sassanech barsteward taking their jobs. He was saved by the sweats he had recruited and trained who pointed out they had no jobs until he had taken them on.
I have had a sheep sh*gging police officer call me an English B@stard and escort me back to the border between them and civilisation.
As for them over the water, what can I say Dave Preston and rest my case. ;) what gives him the right to come over here, drinking our beer and bumping uglies with our redheads.
As a kid I didn't recognise race apart from one family across the fields were polish and spoke a different language at home. So what when Mark and Adam were playing out with us, they spoke English.
As I grew up, I had a fight with Black Dennis's son. He was know as Black Dennis, because he was. He was the best plasterer around. If you wanted him to do a job. you didn't go into the pub looking for Dennis, you went in looking for a black face. Did I fight his son because he was black? Hell no. I fought him because he was a nasty little **** who had smacked my little sister.
I suppose I was at secondary school before I took a serious dislike to somebody that may have been colour based. He was the only black lad in the school and my first day on the bus he started spitting at all the new kids trying to provoke a fight.
When I started work, there was one black kid in the 300 new apprentices. Nutter he was. Game for a laugh. What a pity he is now in Broadmoor. (the voices, dead but still warm girlfriend, what the hell one last time).
So I suppose I have not really been exposed to many coloured or foreign people during my formative years. They certainly didn't go to catholic prep schools. So I guess I haven't needed to form negative views of people I have never met.
To close. I would rather have a 1000 hard working immigrants living in my village that 10 skiving idle dole scrounging English.
-Ralph-
22-01-11, 10:16 AM
I've seen enough awkward behaviour ("passive racism" I guess you could call it) in the Norwich area and have had to console my wife enough times (in the early days) when she couldn't take anymore of the looks and stares she was getting. When you are walking down the street with your wife and you get this claustrophobic feeling that everyone is looking at you, at first thinking your paranoid, but after a while realising your not, it is a little disconcerting to say the least. Now luckily that is the worst it has got, there has been no directed anger etc yet...
To be fair some of this may not be racism as such, they may be looking at you as much as they are her. I used to get this with my Sri Lankan financee as well, and we have friends who are White British Male and Ugandan and they get the same sometimes. It was just surprise on some peoples part as mixed race couples are still relatively rare, especially where there is a big contrast, like a quite dark Sri Lankan and a Ginger white skinned Scot. People stare and think "how the hell did those two end up together?", they are not necessarily thinking anything bad. A large family of Asians walking down the street in flowing robes and women in Burkhas is likely to provoke a more negative reaction from a racist.
When in Mexico we found children were scared of my son, they had never seen a child with such white skin, one little boy said he was an "espectro" (a ghost).
BTW, genetic research shows that mixed race kids are a lot healthier.
Biker Biggles
22-01-11, 10:20 AM
Our country is made up of lots of colours and just because a particular area of the country has a smaller proportion of whites it doesn't mean it is any less British...I bet most non whites in your area are second generation British atleast......I'm not sure you meant it to come out the way it did? Did I mis-understand?
Sorry if I come across as a little sensitive , but I have my reasons. My wife is Fijian and dark in colour (Melanesian) and we have a 7 year old son and baby girl on the way. We lived together in Fiji for 4 years and moved back to the UK in 2004. I've seen enough awkward behaviour ("passive racism" I guess you could call it) in the Norwich area and have had to console my wife enough times (in the early days) when she couldn't take anymore of the looks and stares she was getting. When you are walking down the street with your wife and you get this claustrophobic feeling that everyone is looking at you, at first thinking your paranoid, but after a while realising your not, it is a little disconcerting to say the least. Now luckily that is the worst it has got, there has been no directed anger etc yet...
Interestingly, in contrast, when I was living and working in Fiji it was completely different. Although there is some angst between indigenous and indo populations in places (more about land and money and cultural clashes really), racism is not even on the agenda for the most part, people might make a remark that could be taken as racist here but no one cares there, there is a greater love and respect for all if you know what I mean. As the only white guy in the community, living up in the hills for quite some time, I felt part of the gang and was no way ever made to feel like I was an outsider...go figure!
I think there is just too much talk about racism and this idea of politically correct behaviour carp is getting out of control, with the media pushing it too hard, and law in general making too much of it all.
If everyone was to just get on with life, and not be afraid to approach one another because of the negative hype, wouldn't things be so much better...?
Interesting stuff about Fiji.Having lived there and being married to a Fijian you know a lot more about the place than me,but I have visited Fiji a couple of times(long time ago now) and I read the news.I found Fiji to be much as you say with no obvious racism but events there suggest otherwise.There have been a couple of military coupes there in the last twenty years based on the (melanesian) army ousting the (mainly asian)elected government.There seems no doubt that the nation is teetering on the brink of civil war on racial grounds,or have I got that entirely wrong?
kaivalagi
22-01-11, 10:25 AM
Dude, perhaps you did take my post the wrong way or I posted incorrectly.
...
Btw I don't consider myself racist, I can get on with anyone who isn't a c**t, but I don't want to feel like a minority in my own country, especially in the area I grew up in.
Sorry if my views offend, they're not meant to.
I totally get where you are coming from, and sorry to make such a sweeping statement...housing associations could do better! And minorities could try and stop being minorities and join the rest of the population...
To be fair some of this may not be racism as such, they may be looking at you as much as they are her...
Yeah I guess racism was a strong word, I guess people just need to get out more and see the world a little...
BTW, genetic research shows that mixed race kids are a lot healthier.
I saw a TV program on genetic diversity, was really interesting, my children should be nicely resilient to infection and live to a ripe old age....here's hoping :)
More mixing of genes needs to happen, the human race will be better for it in all sorts of ways...both in social ways and biologically I'd say
kaivalagi
22-01-11, 10:37 AM
Interesting stuff about Fiji.Having lived there and being married to a Fijian you know a lot more about the place than me,but I have visited Fiji a couple of times(long time ago now) and I read the news.I found Fiji to be much as you say with no obvious racism but events there suggest otherwise.There have been a couple of military coupes there in the last twenty years based on the (melanesian) army ousting the (mainly asian)elected government.There seems no doubt that the nation is teetering on the brink of civil war on racial grounds,or have I got that entirely wrong?
It is more political factions than racism I'd say, you have to look into the past to understand it.
Original indo-fijians were there to harvest sugar cane as part of the british rule, over time they were free'd and allowed to live in Fiji like everyone else. Their population now stands at about one third of the total (expands/contracts around coups).
The biggest problem is that the indians came with previous knowledge of commerce and western culture so once granted freedom went straight to work with business and money making, the indigenous peoples however were not assisted in this pursuit and so were left behind and carried on in their traditional ways...as a consequence to this day over 95% of Fijian businesses are owned by non indigenous peoples.
Then you look at the politics, parties are normally either pro indo or indigenous in some way, normally it's a balancing act between helping businesses thrive and ensuring indigenous peoples have thier fair share. Each coup has gone one way then the next the other...the latest was pro indo-fijian with Bainimarama
In contrast if you look in a little town like Levuka (the old capital on Ovalau), there are a lot of indo and indigenous families mixing it up, no racism exists there. Even when coups kicked off there was little separation of the groups. I know oif one indi-fijian man who sings traditional Fijian folk songs and is more "fijian" than some of the kids in the capital city...
But we digress, this thread is about the UK not Fiji
northwind
22-01-11, 07:48 PM
Racist? no but do i resent the way ethnic groups are taking over the uk, yes! Now in many peoples eyes that would make me racist
In my eyes it makes you deluded. And yes probably racist.
There are major cities which are essentially majority ethnicBradford, Nottingham, Sheffield, Birmignham, Leicester, etc
Which major cities are "majority ethnic?" Bradford is 72% white british, Nottingham 76.5%, Sheffield 91% (exactly on the UK average in fact), Birmingham 62%, Leicester 62%.
yorkie_chris
22-01-11, 08:48 PM
Northy as much as I'm sure your statistics are impeccable, do not try to tell me that Bradford is anything like white and British.
Tell you what, bloody go there, see how long you are wandering about before you hear any English being spoken.
There is a guy at work who speaks of niggers and coons. He is the most open racist I have ever seen. I've reported his racism several times and confronted him more. I know he's been spoken to several times, but still he is working there and seems to shrug everything anyone says off. He blatantly and quite verbally slags off coloured people of any shade other than 'white' and believes they all should leave the country. Should he be allowed to speak his mind regarding his views at work? I don't think so but it would appear our bosses do.
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