View Full Version : The Covid19 thread
svenrico
28-07-21, 11:39 AM
just as well BJ predicted he would save us this amount.
https://static.dw.com/image/48958481_401.jpg
:^o
Everything about that was wrong. As far as taking back control goes - is that like giving the EU control over the internal affairs of the UK, as with Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK !
Things work both ways. We take back control. They take back control.
Biker Biggles
29-07-21, 11:21 AM
You got it. Control,like soveriegnty isnt something you vote for or decide to have,its something you aquire through prosperity and economic clout. All the rest is just so much posturing and hot air.
SV650rules
29-07-21, 07:38 PM
Shocking video, a bit long but the point is made within first 10 minutes, the SARS spike protein that binds to human lung tissue was patented in USA by Fauci in 2002. Pfizer also involved in SARS type coronavirus since about 1999.
Around 30 minute mark is US bio companies talking in 2015 about the money to be made from a coronavirus vaccine. Now the worldwide smear campaign against Oxford / Astrazeneca makes sense, they were breaking the rules and robbing the other Pharma companies like Pfizer and Moderna of their massive profits from a vaccine for a virus they had made and released.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihjNDf32_Ac
Not shocking at all because it's another David Martin conspiracy theory that doesn't hold water.
David E Martin (M-CAM) has also produced videos entitled: "Plandemic" and "Plandemic II" which have been widely discredited.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/new-plandemic-video-peddles-misinformation-conspiracies/
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/23/fact-check-plandemic-ii-alleges-false-cdc-nih-conspiracy-theory/3408658001/
Even Facebook have been removing the videos because "claims in the video could lead to imminent harm".
I think I prefer David Icke's lizard people, at least those conspiracies were funny. (he has some covid conspiracy theories too, if you like them that much).
Biker Biggles
30-07-21, 08:55 AM
Shocking video, a bit long but the point is made within first 10 minutes, the SARS spike protein that binds to human lung tissue was patented in USA by Fauci in 2002. Pfizer also involved in SARS type coronavirus since about 1999.
Around 30 minute mark is US bio companies talking in 2015 about the money to be made from a coronavirus vaccine. Now the worldwide smear campaign against Oxford / Astrazeneca makes sense, they were breaking the rules and robbing the other Pharma companies like Pfizer and Moderna of their massive profits from a vaccine for a virus they had made and released.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihjNDf32_Ac
So----is Covid a minor issue like a bit of flu that we need to man up and get over it or is it a serious man made lethal bio hazard that the iluminati have produced just to enrich themselves? We deserve to be told!!!!!
garynortheast
30-07-21, 10:03 AM
So----is Covid a minor issue like a bit of flu that we need to man up and get over it or is it a serious man made lethal bio hazard that the iluminati have produced just to enrich themselves? We deserve to be told!!!!!
Hang on and I'll consult the oracle that is QAnon. Surely they'll have the answer? Well, an answer......
SV650rules
30-07-21, 10:06 AM
The guy who made the video names both people and companies, and also refers to specific patent claim numbers and the dates, and also the content of the patents. He has left himself open to lawsuits from people and companies, but they may not react because it would bring everything out into the open and into the courts, they may prefer to do nothing and try to smear David Martin as a krank, the German committee take his research seriously, so maybe Germany will take action on his findings.
Hang on and I'll consult the oracle that is QAnon. Surely they'll have the answer? Well, an answer......
It was Hilary, wasn't it? It's always Hilary. Those Clintons and their Pizzagate and Benghazi, don't forget Benghazi. ;)
... the German committee .....
https://corona-ausschuss.de/faq/
The "German committee" as referred to is clearly a dyed-in-the-wool anti-everything conspiracy theorist organisation. If you read the faq page at all you will see every single item and comment is based on the premise that it is entirely a conspiracy and engineered by big pharma/government/authority, and every suggestion that it has originated other than by nefarious means is dismissed.
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, however it really should not be proferred as any sort of official or independent un-biased impartial investigative body.
Biker Biggles
30-07-21, 01:11 PM
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjY9I2z7oryAhVKThUIHWmzAUMQwqsBegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dia 2tHDNGfT8&usg=AOvVaw2wQGMHy4mTqse3xE-8c96h
"The German committee"
:salut:
enjoy On The Buses (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRZBIxywELU) seem familiar...
svenrico
08-08-21, 10:41 PM
The last thing I read it seemed to have been accepted it came from a bat and that might have escaped from the Wuhan laboratory, but Chinese authorities are basically obstructing an independent investigation so we will never find out what really happened.
svenrico
08-08-21, 10:49 PM
So----is Covid a minor issue like a bit of flu that we need to man up and get over it or is it a serious man made lethal bio hazard that the iluminati have produced just to enrich themselves? We deserve to be told!!!!!
Whatever else ,I think it has been shown that covid is more than just 'a minor issue like a bit of flu'.
There will be all sorts of biological research being done in laboratories, who knows what deadly virus might escape accidentally.
Be careful of scam texts like this. If you need a Covid pass, you can access it through the NHS app. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210809/c30f32444560ce6727f28bc577c5aa74.jpg
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svenrico
09-08-21, 09:21 PM
What is the use of a pass, vaccination doesn't stop you spreading the virus does it ?! Or am I missing something?
What is the use of a pass, vaccination doesn't stop you spreading the virus does it ?! Or am I missing something?
you can still pass the virus on. worst of all you can carry the virus and not know it...
sledge hammer, walnut.....
SV650rules
10-08-21, 07:49 AM
What is the use of a pass, vaccination doesn't stop you spreading the virus does it ?! Or am I missing something?
One of the big hopes for vaccine rollout was that not only would it stop serious illness ( serious enough to need hospital treatment, where even if you did not have the virus you would catch it in hospital :rolleyes: ) it would help stop the transmission of the virus, seems that hope was realised. People who have had the vaccine carry a much smaller viral load in nose and throat - and it is the number of virus in those areas that is important in passing virus to others.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-05-evidence-covid-vaccines-transmission.html
I spend a lot of time at Willingham Woods and chat to a lot of people. There are regulars whose name I know and others that I don't. I have chatted to Mick many times over the last 4 years - he owned 5 or 6 bikes, I never saw them all but he had a Fireblade and a VTR1000 SP1 that I did see.
He died of covid yesterday. His wife, who I never met, had died 2 weeks earlier.
This is the first person that I actually knew that has passed away from the virus. RIP Mick.
SV650rules
14-08-21, 09:35 AM
I know a few people who have had the virus and recovered OK, but do not know anyone who has succumbed to it. About 4 years ago our neighbours son ( late 40's ) had double pneumonia and at one time they gave him 10% chance - only a medically induced coma and a real high-tech machine that purifies the blood etc ( similar to dialysis machine but much more expensive ) kept him alive, he has something similar to 'long covid' since, with reduced Kidney and brain functions etc and can no longer work.
shiftin_gear98
03-09-21, 12:53 PM
On other matter, I am seriously over bloody Covid.
My household is dropping like flies.
Thank heavens for being double jabbed and the new rules. (which will only screw us all over, once we spread it to everyone)
On other matter, I am seriously over bloody Covid.
ditto.
My quarantine finished a couple of days ago but I still don't feel good. Constant nausea, lethargy, no sense of taste nor smell, tightness across chest if I try and exercise. I prefer to be asleep than awake. :(
I was informed yesterday that it was "just the flu",* this is not like any flu I've experienced.
* by a shopkeeper.
redtrummy
03-09-21, 08:52 PM
We think we had it back in March/April 20. What seemed different was the way the symptoms hit us, one after another. My cough was continuous but only for a hour or so. We both felt fatigued as we got over it and I lost all interest in beer! It was weird.
Found out a couple of weeks ago, at about the same time as we were suffering a girl that was in the same class as me at school died from it.
Thank goodness for the vaccinations
shiftin_gear98
10-09-21, 08:37 AM
And so it begins, I'm now positive and have to isolate until the 18th. Which sucks a little as the 17th is my birthday. Currently aching all over. Joy.
"Covid? We will just have to live with it".
Britain's covid infection rate is now one of worst in the world. Thanks Javid, the Conservative euthanasia plan is functioning well.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/britain-covid-infection-rate-one-143058249.html
SV650rules
01-10-21, 08:52 AM
Concentrating on infections is what the press do, they do not have the brains to realise that the more you test the more you find, and UK is testing every man, woman and dog twice a day. It is people getting sick enough to need hospital that matters, and our hospitals appear to be getting back to normal service, our local ones have abandoned social distancing to get more 'normal' ( non-covid ) patients through treatment....
...and our hospitals appear to be getting back to normal service
this is the "normal" service like the petrol stations are back to "normal"? :)Covid deaths are now averaging about 130/day and are stable at that number - the government considers that acceptable. I suppose it balances their channel immigration policy...
SV650rules
01-10-21, 10:54 AM
In an average year about 55 people a day die from seasonal influenza, and 500,000 a year from all causes, about 1400 per day. The number of people dying from things other than Covid is already increasing and will continue to increase in future as a result of closing the whole country and healthcare down for the last 18+ months. Our neighbour arguably died not from covid but from the lockdown, he was in good health and used to get out and about seeing his mates about 3 times a week, but during lockdown stuck at home in 'a bubble' he lost a lot of his mobility, had a fall, ended up in hospital - got sepsis, ( whether from being in hospital or not we may never know ). There has to be a balance between the economy, peoples 'other health issues' and covid, so yes we are going to have to live with it !
In an average year about 55 people a day die from seasonal influenza, and 500,000 a year from all causes, about 1400 per day. The number of people dying from things other than Covid is already increasing and will continue to increase in future as a result of closing the whole country and healthcare down for the last 18+ months. Our neighbour arguably died not from covid but from the lockdown, he was in good health and used to get out and about seeing his mates about 3 times a week, but during lockdown stuck at home in 'a bubble' he lost a lot of his mobility, had a fall, ended up in hospital - got sepsis, ( whether from being in hospital or not we may never know ). There has to be a balance between the economy, peoples 'other health issues' and covid, so yes we are going to have to live with it !
I won't argue with your figures since I'm too lazy to google them but, with a few safety precautions, the covid death count could be reduced and the economy would not be impacted.
Mask wearing should not be optional as an example, seat belts aren't, crash helmets aren't, speed limits aren't. If it saved 30 lives per day it would be worth it or to look it another way, if we had a daily mass shooting of 30 people - what would the reaction be? People would be screaming for it to be fixed.
UK's covid response was a failure...
"...one of the worst ever public health failures" says an MP's report
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58876089
Anyone surprised?
The only thing that is surprising is that it won't make any difference to BoZo's Clown Troupe's popularity.
UK's covid response was a failure...
Anyone surprised?
The only thing that is surprising is that it won't make any difference to BoZo's Clown Troupe's popularity.
Nope. I'm just surprised that no one tried to suppress or edit the report.
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UK's covid response was a failure...
"...one of the worst ever public health failures" says an MP's report
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58876089
Anyone surprised?
The only thing that is surprising is that it won't make any difference to BoZo's Clown Troupe's popularity.
Of course not, especially when the opposition are too busy arguing internally to consider the public opinion of them.
Nope. I'm just surprised that no one tried to suppress or edit the report.
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They couldn't, as it was pretty obvious for all to see they probably did a $h**e job if it all. So its not really 'news' in that we all knew already, and no one would be shocked by the outcome - which means it has no negative impact.
SV650rules
12-10-21, 06:35 PM
Hindsight is 20/20... people love to criticise, but when you ask them what they would have done it goes kinda quiet.
not really. Pretty much everyone was saying to lockdown earlier than they did . . . . . .
not really. Pretty much everyone was saying to lockdown earlier than they did . . . . . .Absolutely!
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not really. Pretty much everyone was saying to lockdown earlier than they did . . . . . .
... and close the borders.
... hospital patients transferred to care homes with no testing
... then there was the PPE corruption. - Contracts given to friends.
..."World beating" Test and Trace - the only thing world beating was the cost: £37 billion
... and they put Dido Harding in charge who had a track record of screw ups.
... the mixed messaging.
... eat out to help out campaign.
... plus the NHS had been pared back through austerity so we had fewer ICU beds than any European country.
Even today, mask wearing is a recommendation, an option - so naturally people are not doing it, yet we know it helps reduce the spread.
redtrummy
12-10-21, 07:23 PM
As we slowly recovered from the virus I repeatedly commented on why BoJo was not taking any action to make sure incomers were not bringing the virus into the country and spreading it.
I remember a ministers comment that the numbers involved were insignificant, bloody idiot.
Whilst we recovered an old school friend sadly succumbed to the virus - unforgivable negligence on the governments part - and there but for the grace of God it could have been us. (No I am not particularly religious)
svenrico
12-10-21, 08:16 PM
Hindsight is 20/20... people love to criticise, but when you ask them what they would have done it goes kinda quiet.
The thing is there are supposed to be experts in various fields who shouldn't need hindsight to make the right decisions and who could reasonably be expected to forecast the likely results of whatever actions are going to be taken.
( It's like saying nobody could have predicted Brexit would create problems with Northern Ireland, Scotland having a case for wanting another referendum, problems with labour/European workers etc, etc ! ) They should have known these things.
redtrummy
13-10-21, 08:16 AM
Guess you can listen, and follow the advice from the experts or just ignore it.
SV650rules
13-10-21, 08:19 AM
not really. Pretty much everyone was saying to lockdown earlier than they did . . . . . .
What will happen when it is found that lockdowns actually caused more deaths than the virus, and amongst younger people who did not get proper diagnosis and treatment for cancer and the like. The bald facts are that 75% of covid deaths were people over 80 who already had multiple serious chronic health conditions ( co-morbidity ) that could kill them at any time, and over 90% of deaths occurred in over 60 demographic. Average age of a covid death in UK was 82, which is roughly the same as our expected average lifespan.
SV650rules
13-10-21, 08:26 AM
not really. Pretty much everyone was saying to lockdown earlier than they did . . . . . .
But they did not have responsibility for the rest of important things like jobs, food supplies and the economy etc. The problem with this country is that everyone who really knows how to run things is either a passenger in, or the driver of a taxi. Nobody knows what would have happened with earlier lockdowns, it is all speculation. In March 2020 a WHO spokesman said UK would be badly affected by virus because the NHS was so good at keeping elderly, chronically ill patients with multiple conditions alive, and they were the ones who were in the crosshairs of the virus.
Biker Biggles
13-10-21, 08:57 AM
Dont worry. This is just a parliamentary committee report that castigates the government response to covid. We will be getting a full public enquiry shortly and the terms of reference/chair of that will be set by the government. A more Boris friendly result will be assured.
What will happen when it is found that lockdowns actually caused more deaths than the virus, and amongst younger people who did not get proper diagnosis and treatment for cancer and the like. The bald facts are that 75% of covid deaths were people over 80 who already had multiple serious chronic health conditions ( co-morbidity ) that could kill them at any time, and over 90% of deaths occurred in over 60 demographic. Average age of a covid death in UK was 82, which is roughly the same as our expected average lifespan.
Potentially, it might do that over a longer time period. But an earlier lock down to protect the vulnerable & to slow the spread should have been able to allow important medical appointments to continue. Instead the NHS had to focus the majority of resources on Covid, which had been allowed to spread more freely due to the lateness of lockdown and lack of critical safety information (social distancing & face masks) being brought in too late.
Even Trump had the foresight to try and close the borders when this news first reared its head . . . .
The problem with this country is that...
...we have elected a corrupt, unethical, inept government who are far too eager to divert funds to their donors, don't obey their own rules and make one blunder after another then blame everyone except themselves.
Our glorious leader takes a holiday everytime there's bad news or, as in the early days of the pandemic, didn't bother showing up for the SAGE meetings. Perhaps if he kept his pants on and stopped chasing potential mistresses, we might get a better leader.
Speculation that other medical conditions caused just as many deaths as the virus is just that: speculation and is akin to "whataboutism". The facts as we currently know them are that we, as a country, have done a poor job in handling the pandemic but one common refrain from this (and still continues) is dithering. The inability and/or reluctance to make a decision because half of the damn Tories pull one way and the half pull the other - we saw it with Brexit, we see it with the pandemic response.
They are pathetic at doing anything except feathering their own nests. Would another party have done better, who knows? What we have is the Tories and they did a lousy job. (by their own MP's comments).
Rant over.
...we have elected a corrupt, unethical, inept government who are far too eager to divert funds to their donors, don't obey their own rules and make one blunder after another then blame everyone except themselves.
Our glorious leader takes a holiday everytime there's bad news or, as in the early days of the pandemic, didn't bother showing up for the SAGE meetings. Perhaps if he kept his pants on and stopped chasing potential mistresses, we might get a better leader.
Speculation that other medical conditions caused just as many deaths as the virus is just that: speculation and is akin to "whataboutism". The facts as we currently know them are that we, as a country, have done a poor job in handling the pandemic but one common refrain from this (and still continues) is dithering. The inability and/or reluctance to make a decision because half of the damn Tories pull one way and the half pull the other - we saw it with Brexit, we see it with the pandemic response.
They are pathetic at doing anything except feathering their own nests. Would another party have done better, who knows? What we have is the Tories and they did a lousy job. (by their own MP's comments).
Rant over.Couldn't put it better myself.
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svenrico
13-10-21, 12:26 PM
...we have elected a corrupt, unethical, inept government who are far too eager to divert funds to their donors, don't obey their own rules and make one blunder after another then blame everyone except themselves.
Our glorious leader takes a holiday everytime there's bad news or, as in the early days of the pandemic, didn't bother showing up for the SAGE meetings. Perhaps if he kept his pants on and stopped chasing potential mistresses, we might get a better leader.
Speculation that other medical conditions caused just as many deaths as the virus is just that: speculation and is akin to "whataboutism". The facts as we currently know them are that we, as a country, have done a poor job in handling the pandemic but one common refrain from this (and still continues) is dithering. The inability and/or reluctance to make a decision because half of the damn Tories pull one way and the half pull the other - we saw it with Brexit, we see it with the pandemic response.
They are pathetic at doing anything except feathering their own nests. Would another party have done better, who knows? What we have is the Tories and they did a lousy job. (by their own MP's comments).
Rant over.
Hear, hear.
garynortheast
13-10-21, 04:38 PM
...we have elected a corrupt, unethical, inept government who are far too eager to divert funds to their donors, don't obey their own rules and make one blunder after another then blame everyone except themselves.
Our glorious leader takes a holiday everytime there's bad news or, as in the early days of the pandemic, didn't bother showing up for the SAGE meetings. Perhaps if he kept his pants on and stopped chasing potential mistresses, we might get a better leader.
Speculation that other medical conditions caused just as many deaths as the virus is just that: speculation and is akin to "whataboutism". The facts as we currently know them are that we, as a country, have done a poor job in handling the pandemic but one common refrain from this (and still continues) is dithering. The inability and/or reluctance to make a decision because half of the damn Tories pull one way and the half pull the other - we saw it with Brexit, we see it with the pandemic response.
They are pathetic at doing anything except feathering their own nests. Would another party have done better, who knows? What we have is the Tories and they did a lousy job. (by their own MP's comments).
Rant over.
A perfect summary.
Adherence to unpleasant ideologies has the alarming ability to render some people blind to the reality of situations and facts.
You mean like the UN hiring Matt Hancock as the being appointed as a special envoy to help Africa's recovery from Covid . . . .
Essentially the person responsible for the health of those in the UK who oversaw its failure from the start and has now been voted as the single worse crisis in the UK ever.
You mean like the UN hiring Matt Hancock as the being appointed as a special envoy to help Africa's recovery from Covid . . . .
Essentially the person responsible for the health of those in the UK who oversaw its failure from the start and has now been voted as the single worse crisis in the UK ever.Unbelievable isn't it.
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It simply shows no one at that higher level in the world really gives a to$$ about mere mortals. If that record of all his failures and deaths he caused the last 18 months is rewarded like that, then God help us with what BoJo gets employed to do next!
If that happened under an NHS, or private medical board he would be in Jail and charged for what happened. Instead it's noted on record and we all move on like it never happened.
Adherence to unpleasant ideologies has the alarming ability to render some people blind to the reality of situations and facts.
:winner: (Though personally I would not limit it to just "unpleasant" ideologies.)
I am also pleasantly surprised that my own general opinion can also be pretty well represented by the substitution of pretty much just one word in Seeker's post - see below
IMHO, systematic change is required for the benefit of the country. Party politics and the "whip" system is not serving us at all well.
...
The facts as we currently know them are that we, as a country, have done a poor job ...
The inability and/or reluctance to make a decision because half of the damn MPs in Parliament <Tories> pull one way and the half pull the other - we saw it with Brexit, we see it with the pandemic response.
...
The systematic change needed is to hold MP's accountable for their actions, and don't treat them like they're above the law.
If they stop representing the people and only work for themselves/party donor's, relinquish them of their duty as an MP and send them back to their constituency. And claim back all expenses.
The one thing you can pretty much guarantee with any "independent" or "judicial" inquiry is what will happen as a result.
NOTHING.
I sum up the world situation in 2 words .............. SH*T SHOW............ and yes, Great Britain is leading the way.
"Lessons must be learnt" (Yeah, right)
"Never again" (yeah, until the next time).
the great british judicial and enquiry system at work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster
The systematic change needed is to hold MP's accountable for their actions, and don't treat them like they're above the law.
Agreed.
Priti Patel was accused and found guilty of bullying by the ethics advisor to BoZo (Sir Alex Allan). BoZo overrode the investigation and allowed Patel to stay in her post whereas normal procedure would have been for her to step down or at least face some punishment. Don't forget she was fired by Theresa May for lying (by omission) so she has past record of being unethical.
The ethics advisor stepped down because he was overruled and BoZo didn't replace him for 6 months. When he was replaced it was under different guidelines where BoZo has the ability to prevent any ethics investigation from starting.
svenrico
14-10-21, 08:57 PM
Agreed.
Priti Patel was accused and found guilty of bullying by the ethics advisor to BoZo (Sir Alex Allan). BoZo overrode the investigation and allowed Patel to stay in her post whereas normal procedure would have been for her to step down or at least face some punishment. Don't forget she was fired by Theresa May for lying (by omission) so she has past record of being unethical.
The ethics advisor stepped down because he was overruled and BoZo didn't replace him for 6 months. When he was replaced it was under different guidelines where BoZo has the ability to prevent any ethics investigation from starting.
How do they get away with it ?!
How do they get away with it ?!
...because people aren't paying attention and don't bother writing to their MP, plus the Mail and Express seldom report these cases.
Here's another one that he's getting away with...
The Electoral Commission is an independent body that checks to make sure that donations to the political parties are legal and above board.
It investigated BoZo's flat refurbishment so BoZo is planning to strip it of its power to investigate since rules are for other people.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/electoral-commission-boris-johnson-flat-b1868407.html
It has been under threat since the "Vote Leave" campaign broke spending limits and was caught.
Incidentally, the bill that will strip the commission of its powers is the same bill that will require voter id at general elections. A power grab since lower income people are less likely to have a passport or driving license. Thw claim is to stop voter fraud - there were 6 cases at the last election (out of 28 million votes).
Russian donors are the major money behind the Conservative Party.
SV650rules
15-10-21, 02:46 PM
The government followed the advice of their covid medical advisory panel, but some people with an axe to grind continue to try to blame the Tories, personally I am so glad that useless Labour were not in power.
As for Vote leave breaking the spending limit, there were a couple of court cases that exonerated them of that trumped up charge. Remain had extra funding in the form of £9million of taxpayers money spent on the openly Remain leaflet that was delivered to every household in UK.
As for Vote leave breaking the spending limit, there were a couple of court cases that exonerated them of that trumped up charge. Remain had extra funding in the form of £9million of taxpayers money spent on the openly Remain leaflet that was delivered to every household in UK.
Vote Leave were fined £61000 for breaking the law.
The government followed the advice of their covid medical advisory panel, but some people with an axe to grind continue to try to blame the Tories, personally I am so glad that useless Labour were not in power.
Of course the Tories get the blame, they were in power. It was shown by S Korea that an early lockdown was effective and we could see the virus running rampant in Italy but the clown posse dithered and we had unnecessary deaths. The all party MP panel that described our early response as a failure was dominated by Tory MPs. So, please, no whitewashing.
The elephant in the room is that we currently have one of the highest number of cases in the world and are losing over 100 people per day. Our "world beating" vaccination program has stalled and several EU countries have passed us. The government message seems to be everything is great and we're back to normal, whilst the medical people are saying we can't persuade the under 30s to get jabs and it's going to be a rough winter. More mixed messages.
Would Labour have done better? We will never know, but I'm happy you take solace in that they were not.
SV650rules
15-10-21, 05:14 PM
Remain campaign also broke spending limits ( and that is without even including the taxpayer funded leaflets via H M Government )
https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2016/04/row-erupts-after-government-spends-ps9m-pro-eu-leaflet
https://order-order.com/2018/03/26/remain-campaign-used-exactly-spending-tactics-vote-leave-far-worse/
Due to the massive left bias of electoral commission they were on a mission against vote leave, but some cases against vote leave were thrown out, despite electoral commission spending taxpayers money on a witchhunt. Vote leave actually asked electoral commission for advice on funding and the advice they were given was wrong.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52588149?link_location=live-reporting-story
https://order-order.com/2018/09/14/high-court-finds-electoral-commission-unfit-purpose/
Due to the massive left bias of electoral commission
links for this allegation? I cannot find any.
I don't think putting the commission under Tory control will help its neutrality especially with the current governments' track record on ethical matters and with 14 ministers being funded by Russian oligarchs, they need to be closely watched.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-report-donors-boris-johnson-conservative-party-2020-7?r=US&IR=T
...but this thread is about covid and now the government's incompetence in handling it. Today a company has been suspended for giving 40000 incorrect PCR test results. The company did not exist a year ago and was awarded a contract without it going to tender (sound familiar? remember Matt Hancock's friend and PPE maker?). The owner has a DNA test company too which is also under investigation for incorrect tests.
SV650rules
15-10-21, 07:16 PM
So what was your plan to get through the last 18 months with no deaths, I would be interested to know. Would you have followed the scientific advice like Conservatives did or made up your own stuff, and taken the consequences when it went wrong.
As for electoral commission ( and it was you that introduced Brexit and vote leave into this thread ) even arch remainer Lord Adonis said Electoral commission was incompetent
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45519676
So what was your plan to get through the last 18 months with no deaths
0 deaths not possible. I would have introduced lockdown immediately and controlled incoming travelers (like S Korea and NZ). Germany had a test/trace program long before we did, I would have used that. This government believes in British Exceptionalism which is a world class joke as evidenced by our expensive and flawed Test and Trace (Serco) program, £37,000,000,000 (£37 billion)!!!
If another country has a working system - copy it. PPE corruption was shameful - Tories gave contracts to friends who proved incompetent - there was a PPE company in Hull who couldn't get the government to return calls so sold their PPE stock to Denmark when care homes and hospitals were crying out for supplies.
Don't give mixed messages - look at last Christmas - "there won't be a lockdown", "Boris will save Xmas"... and we had a lockdown (too late again).
Even now, why is mask wearing an option?
The only reason the official inquiry into this debacle is next year is so the results won't come until after the next election.
Even now, why is mask wearing an option?
Perhaps because its contribution to managing the problem is debatable?
I'm far from convinced it offers anything more than a very marginal benefit at best and I am more concerned that everyone is being treated like they're a plague carrying killer: "Masks are to protect others" + "people will die if you infect them with Covid" creates a damning message.
You may find it counter-intuitive and hard to relate to but, personally, I find the wholsesale enforcement of masks on the basis of protecting others creates a feeling that things are more hazardous, not more safe.
Other measures (general hygiene, distancing etc.) may be more appropriate and better for overall life experience and human interaction. The uplift I get from seeing a few smiles when out and about dealing with people far outweighs the concern I have that I may get Covid from a mask-free individual.
svenrico
15-10-21, 10:14 PM
Perhaps because its contribution to managing the problem is debatable?
I'm far from convinced it offers anything more than a very marginal benefit at best and I am more concerned that everyone is being treated like they're a plague carrying killer: "Masks are to protect others" + "people will die if you infect them with Covid" creates a damning message.
You may find it counter-intuitive and hard to relate to but, personally, I find the wholsesale enforcement of masks on the basis of protecting others creates a feeling that things are more hazardous, not more safe.
Other measures (general hygiene, distancing etc.) may be more appropriate and better for overall life experience and human interaction. The uplift I get from seeing a few smiles when out and about dealing with people far outweighs the concern I have that I may get Covid from a mask-free individual.
Surely ,when the virus can be spread in the air, masks as an added precaution can only help protect the wearer and others in enclosed public spaces as well as ,not instead of ,hand washing and social distancing.
Even now, why is mask wearing an option?
Perhaps because its contribution to managing the problem is debatable?
I didn't think there was any doubt that masks helped reduce the spread but letting that pass for a second, here's a great example of mixed messaging - taken from government website here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own
"You are expected and recommended to continue wearing a face covering in crowded and enclosed spaces where you come into contact with people you don’t usually meet. In particular, where the risk of transmission is likely to be greater."
Summarising - it's not mandatory to wear a mask (but we recommend you do).
If it's a recommendation presumably it has a safety benefit and important but on the other hand we won't make you do it. So if you won't make me do it, it's not important then? Which is it? I still wear a mask when shopping but I'm in the minority now.
I think this partially explains the 40k cases/130 deaths per day - people have dropped their guard and assume the virus has gone away because we've been told everything is getting back to normal. It will never go away but it can be managed, we (the UK government) are not currently managing it well.
You mean like the UN hiring Matt Hancock as the being appointed as a special envoy to help Africa's recovery from Covid . . . .
Essentially the person responsible for the health of those in the UK who oversaw its failure from the start and has now been voted as the single worse crisis in the UK ever.
Good news (In your best James May voice), they have rescinded the offer due to all the backlash received. So they've only corrected their wrong due to others pushing them to do so . . . .
...(Priti Patel) ..... .. Don't forget she was fired by Theresa May for lying (by omission) so she has past record of being unethical.
.....
That's OK, she now works for a boss who has been sacked multiple times for being "flexible" with the truth, by the Times, the Telegraph, and Tory leader Michael Howard (I believe Michael Howard actually sacked him twice, maybe wrong on that one, whatever)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/30/accusations-of-lying-pile-up-against-boris-johnson-does-it-matter
That Johnson lies is a matter of record. At the start of his career the Times fired him for making up quotes. In Brussels for the Daily Telegraph he invented stories about the EU. In 2004 Michael Howard sacked him from the shadow cabinet after he lied about an affair. Johnson reportedly told Howard: “It’s my private life. I have the right to lie about my private life.”
It actually seems to be a quality admired by the body political these days. The only "crime" is getting found out, but even that is excused and is seen as vindictive by those that discover and expose the nefarious deeds.
..... Would you have followed the scientific advice like Conservatives did .....
How about this one?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925853/S0768_Fifty-eighth_SAGE_meeting_on_Covid-19.pdf
Advised on 21st Sept 2020, took action 31st October https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/prime-ministers-statement-on-coronavirus-covid-19-31-october-2020
... and then the debacle over Christmas/New Year ..............
Surely ,when the virus can be spread in the air, masks as an added precaution can only help protect the wearer and others in enclosed public spaces as well as ,not instead of ,hand washing and social distancing.
I didn't think there was any doubt that masks helped reduce the spread ...
Fair challenges. I wasn't suggesting there was no benefit, just that it seems to be marginal at best as far as I can tell.
I do recall there were several differing opinions offered last year before masks were mandated. Presumably some of "the science" suggested it wasn't important enough when preparing for the 1st lockdown etc.? Factoring in effects of poor fit, saturation, cleanliness etc., perhaps the effectiveness isn't as good as it appears?
And their contribution is so crucial that they're mandated for controlling other prevalent viruses that are spread through the air and can potentially kill significant numbers, like influenza say ... Oh
... here's a great example of mixed messaging ...
I agree that the messaging and explanation has been shoddy. Especially the current policy of 'no legal requirements but a whole load of recommendations' - that's just a cop out.
It will never go away but it can be managed.
This is the crucial point: It cannot be eradicated (Once it was out, I don't think it ever could) and we have to make choices about how we manage it.
It's all about trade-offs. Some of those choices are based on culture rather than pure science. As I said before, I'd rather see smiles (and other expressions) than masks. I accept that might be a higher risk of infection but the benefits in other areas outweigh it for me. I also accept that others' opinions may vary and that's fine too.
You have to laugh even when it hurts with its accuracy. :grin:
https://newsthump.com/2021/10/20/nation-wearily-prepares-for-further-lockdown-after-government-categorically-rules-it-out/
svenrico
20-10-21, 10:41 PM
I will continue wearing a mask in enclosed public places, on a bus, social distance where possible ,use hand sanitiser. Why not take precautions if it helps avoid another lockdown , it can't increase the risk of another lockdown can it ?!
As cases, hospitalisations and deaths continue to rise the response in 2 months will be:
"No one could see this coming".
A few people could and made jokes...
https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2021/10/21/covid-cases-plan-b-tweets-about-the-uk-right-now/
I like this one from James O'Brien which had a Blackadder style to it:
"Pretending that Covid was over was a cunning plan with one rather obvious flaw…"
I'll refer (again, yawn) to my favourite analogy.
If 130+ people a day were dying on the roads and we knew exactly what to do to allieviate at least some of it with very little real inconvenience to the public, the gubberment would probably act.
No need for a full lockdown, just some sensible immediate measures, it'll probably help.
Johnno took 6 weeks last autumn to actually get his hindsight ar$e in gear and do what he had been advised to do by those troublemakers in SAGE and the NHS.
Start counting from now ..................
redtrummy
21-10-21, 11:55 AM
Optimist he is - level headed he is not
garynortheast
21-10-21, 01:07 PM
Optimist he is
That's the charitable view of him. Not really what the self serving @rse deserves though.
do people think that any other prime minister would have acted or made decisions different?
your damned if you do......
there is NOTHING that can be done to stop covid unless they find a CURE... you can have all the "immunisation" jabs you like its not going to stop the spread of the virus. people will die.. fact. you cant stop it even with jabs.
dont blame your government for the way people behave. if you start bringing in laws then where does it stop? its only a few who ruin it for the many and if the government have to start controlling the few then the rest of us have to suffer as well.
there is farrrrrrrrr too much fear mongering and the only thing to fear is the thought of fear itself.
you cant stop anyone from contracting covid....... so why do people think that their government can help them????
BTW the public put bojo in charge by voting for brexit.. so who do we blame?
dont blame your government for the way people behave. if you start bringing in laws then where does it stop? its only a few who ruin it for the many and if the government have to start controlling the few then the rest of us have to suffer as well.
We had to have laws to make us all wear crash helmets, we had to have laws to make us wear seatbelts, we have had to have laws to stop us using phones whilst driving.
People as individuals may recognise the need for the greater good but as soon as one person is seen to be getting away with it, it becomes "if they can do it, why can't I?"
As soon as they dropped the mask and social distancing rules from mandatory to recommended it was obvious what would happen and no mention of the "Blitz spirit" as regurgitated again today by Javid would change that.
EU countries that have similar vaccination rates but kept other restrictions have far fewer cases/hospitalisations and deaths - the evidence is there.
France has 49.2 cases per 100k pop, we have 476. Germany has 85.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1139048/coronavirus-case-rates-in-the-past-7-days-in-europe-by-country/
This is exactly what happened in the previous instances, case rates, hospitalisations and deaths rose, the government claimed everything was under control and then a month later belatedly introduced curbs.
Javid had to remind (Tory) MPs today to wear masks in the Commons because nobody was complying.
If they won't do it why should anyone else? They are pathetic (as you may have surmised, I didn't vote for them).
As has been mentioned a few times, covid can be managed with sensible, coherent rules - but our problem is that we don't have any adults setting the rules. Let's not forget BoZo's famous quote:
“I’ve given you the most important metric – never mind life expectancy, never mind cancer outcomes – look at wage growth.
Boris Johnson Oct2021
This wasn't covid related but shows his thinking.
To lighten the mood, Larry and David have a video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5h3kn-Pqk8&t=145s
BTW the public put bojo in charge by voting for brexit.. so who do we blame?
Adolf Hitler was elected. Sometimes you can fool enough people to get elected on a deceit, tell people what they want to hear and they'll vote for it regardless of what you then intend to do. Generally it involves pointing at some identifiable sub-group of people and saying it's their fault, vote for me and I'll sort them out (Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, Muslims, Mexicans, intellectuals, Europeans, take your pick). It's how despots get to hold power, trading on people's fears.
I had a straightforward discussion with one of my customers. They had no idea of BJ's track record, they voted for him just because they wanted "self-rule" to the point of doing away with regulations, people should be able to decide for themselves what they wanted to use/buy/eat. I asked if they expected their car or their washing machine or medicines to be "safe". Of course they did. So we need regulations, yes, no?
BJ was elected on a single issue, get it done. There were enough people who believed the promise (assurance, dream?) that it would solve all their problems, get rid of those pesky foreigners and all will be well. No paperwork for NI traders, jobs for all the "Brits", you know the rest.
As for the ongoing Covid issue, it seems that he just keeps on making the same mistake, not a case of "just in time" but more a case of "just too late". He doesn't seem to learn. What part of pre-empting does he not understand?
Some friends recently returned from France. Everyone wears a mask in public meeting type places (markets etc), and you show your vaccine cert (QR or paper) whenever you enter a restaurant or bar and keep the mask on until seated. They felt much "safer" than back here. My local supermarkets have become breeding grounds for any virus (I expect flu to be spread there again), the hand/trolley disinfectant stands are grubby and surrounded by discarded paper towels on the floor, and many people don't use them anyway and the minority now wear masks in store, it's just indicative of the casual carefree dismissive attitude we Brits tend to have. I am more vigilant and diligent with the hygiene aspects than ever, the infection risks have definitely increased dramatically in the stores. I carry my own hand cleaner and use it as soon as I exit the store.
We had to have laws to make us all wear crash helmets, we had to have laws to make us wear seatbelts, we have had to have laws to stop us using phones whilst driving.
People as individuals may recognise the need for the greater good but as soon as one person is seen to be getting away with it, it becomes "if they can do it, why can't I?"
As soon as they dropped the mask and social distancing rules from mandatory to recommended it was obvious what would happen and no mention of the "Blitz spirit" as regurgitated again today by Javid would change that.
EU countries that have similar vaccination rates but kept other restrictions have far fewer cases/hospitalisations and deaths - the evidence is there.
France has 49.2 cases per 100k pop, we have 476. Germany has 85.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1139048/coronavirus-case-rates-in-the-past-7-days-in-europe-by-country/
This is exactly what happened in the previous instances, case rates, hospitalisations and deaths rose, the government claimed everything was under control and then a month later belatedly introduced curbs.
Javid had to remind (Tory) MPs today to wear masks in the Commons because nobody was complying.
If they won't do it why should anyone else? They are pathetic (as you may have surmised, I didn't vote for them).
As has been mentioned a few times, covid can be managed with sensible, coherent rules - but our problem is that we don't have any adults setting the rules. Let's not forget BoZo's famous quote:
“I’ve given you the most important metric – never mind life expectancy, never mind cancer outcomes – look at wage growth.
Boris Johnson Oct2021
This wasn't covid related but shows his thinking.
To lighten the mood, Larry and David have a video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5h3kn-Pqk8&t=145s
It makes no difference to the MP's as they'll flout the rules/laws they implement. It's the Public who have to deal with the fall out of restrictions & the loss of loved ones.
When they start being held accountable, planning ahead and starting to lead by example, is when the public think they might have a clue as to what they're actually doing and believe a word they say.
Let's face it, if everyone (or even a majority, say 52%....) 'broke' lock down rules, including businesses there's not enough resources to hold people accountable - Police, Courts, Jails etc. There's not enough of them and a backlog to last for many years.
"NHS Test and Trace has cost taxpayers “eye-watering” sums of money and has not achieved its main objective of letting people return to a normal lives, a damning report by MPs has concluded."
Surprised? Of course not, Dido Harding had a history of failure, she had no business running T&T. Her husband, John Penrose advocated her for the position (he's in charge of monitoring corruption - don't laugh). He wanted the private sector to run T&T not the NHS (Serco ran it). He also defended cronyism...
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/uk-anti-corruption-john-penrose-sinister-defence-government-covid-cronyism/
svenrico
27-10-21, 10:26 PM
"NHS Test and Trace has cost taxpayers “eye-watering” sums of money and has not achieved its main objective of letting people return to a normal lives, a damning report by MPs has concluded."
Surprised? Of course not, Dido Harding had a history of failure, she had no business running T&T. Her husband, John Penrose advocated her for the position (he's in charge of monitoring corruption - don't laugh). He wanted the private sector to run T&T not the NHS (Serco ran it). He also defended cronyism...
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/uk-anti-corruption-john-penrose-sinister-defence-government-covid-cronyism/
This bloke Penrose sounds like he isn't actually accountable for anything himself!
lets put this 37Bn for Test and Trace into perspective.. Scotland's block grant for a year from Westminster is £32Bn. Scotland has to run a whole country with that money........
someone needs to be put in prison for a very long time. after all bozo could not even get funds to decorate No10 and they made a BIG fuss over that. so why not as much media cover for something as big as £37Bn. i personally think it was supposed to be £37m but someone had a sticky keyboard.
It did strike me while listening o some of Mr.Sunak's much-leaked budget speech that the billion is the new million.
Not long ago it was pretty spectacular when the govt announced spending north of £100m on something, wow, where was all that money coming from?
Now unless it's in the billions no-one even bats an eyelid.
HS2 (which runs within half a mile of me) is going to cost well over £100bn, and just to put that into perspective that is £1500 for every man, woman, and child in the country. Track and trace is £500 for every single person. These truly are eye-watering sums. The Westminster clowns have lost all sense of reality.
I'm afraid that the concept of holding anyone (individual or department etc) to account for what they're doing or not doing seems to have become an irrelevance. After all, no-one cares that political leaders are proven blatant liars, the flock will still vote for them, so why bother about anything else?
"I have nothing but respect for them, and precious little of that."
redtrummy
29-10-21, 04:25 PM
And what benefit will you get from HS2? The eastern leg is planned to run through Leicestershire. No stops until Nottinghamshire. (but if it is ever built I wont know I will be long gone) about 3 mile from here.
Why did we have Austerity? Bo Jo seems to find the money. (I know its not his)
svenrico
29-10-21, 09:12 PM
Track and trace is £500 for every single person. These truly are eye-watering sums. The Westminster clowns have lost all sense of reality.
I'm afraid that the concept of holding anyone (individual or department etc) to account for what they're doing or not doing seems to have become an irrelevance. "
Quite right, how do they get away with it ? Even if they have an inquiry into these things, it ends up being fudged and as big a farce as the thing they are investigating it seems to me.
garynortheast
29-10-21, 09:27 PM
Quite right, how do they get away with it ? Even if they have an inquiry into these things, it ends up being fudged and as big a farce as the thing they are investigating it seems to me.
Read this book (https://www.londonreviewbookshop.co.uk/stock/the-establishment-and-how-they-get-away-with-it-owen-jones) and then you'll understand. You'll stop asking how they get away with it and start thinking about what we can do about it.
redtrummy
30-10-21, 09:20 AM
Just ordered - will need something to read next week
svenrico
30-10-21, 05:44 PM
Read this book (https://www.londonreviewbookshop.co.uk/stock/the-establishment-and-how-they-get-away-with-it-owen-jones) and then you'll understand. You'll stop asking how they get away with it and start thinking about what we can do about it.
Not Covid specifically but relevant to your comments - I am quoting from a letter written to my local paper regarding The Health and Care Bill being debated in parliament to end competitive tendering by private companies for NHS work.
As the letter writer says - this will actually mean more privatisation as it allows the award of NHS contracts without due process and scrutiny.
Sounds like legalising corruption to me !
So what can we do about it ?
So what can we do about it ?
the first step is to write to your MP stating your opposition (and why), explain the Bill to your friends and get them to write, too. MPs are there to represent you (supposedly).
garynortheast
03-11-21, 08:25 PM
had my Covid booster this morning. Feeling just a little bit iffy but ok. Main gripe is that top of my arm now aches.
On reddit there is a sub-reddit called the HermanCain Award. He was a Republican (Trump supporter) that refused to wear a mask, caught covid and died. The award is given frequently to anti-vaxxers who have usually posted about how they are not a sheep and won't wear masks or get vaccinated because it's against their human rights, they then post from the ICU asking for prayers and, subsequently, die.
Similarly, I've just read an article from a respiratory doctor bemoaning the fact that our NHS ICUs are being filled with anti-vaxxers.
What angers me is how it now makes me feel - I have no sympathy for these people and have caught myself thinking "good" when another (moron) passes away. I didn't use to be like this and it's a side of me I don't like.
What is wrong with people that ignore scientific advice and get their directions from social media. Are people really that stupid? I was vaccinated but still caught the virus but I'm alive because, perhaps, I trusted the virologists and listened to their advice. I have to consider, though, that I'm a bad person because of my lack of tolerance for idiots.
I had my booster today.
SV650rules
21-11-21, 09:27 PM
65% of people in hospital with Covid have been double jabbed, that means that only 35% of Covid patients in Hospital in UK are un-vaccinated... So maybe the vaccines not so effective after all
https://fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/
There are no rabid anti-vaxxers, there are only rabid triple masked pro-vaxxers who want to make it legal to pump untested mRNA into humans who do not want it ( mRNA technology has been known
about for over 30 years but was never licenced for human use except on terminally ill cancer patients - until now, and the side-effects are not being published ).
65% of people in hospital with Covid have been double jabbed, that means that only 35% of Covid patients in Hospital in UK are un-vaccinated... So maybe the vaccines not so effective after all
There are no rabid anti-vaxxers, there are only rabid triple masked pro-vaxxers who want to make it legal to pump untested mRNA into humans who do not want it ( mRNA technology has been known
about for over 30 years but was never licenced for human use except on terminally ill cancer patients - until now, and the side-effects are not being published ).
sigh, more conspiracy theories?
Besides, AZ isn't an mRNA vaccine, nor is Johnson&Johnson they are modified adenovirus. which have been studied since the 70s.
Plus nearly 90% of patients in North East London's ICU are not fully vaccinated
https://www.bartshealth.nhs.uk/news/almost-90-of-patients-admitted-to-intensive-care-units-in-north-east-london-are-not-fully-vaccinated-11544
Netherlands report similarly:
https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/4-in-5-covid-19-patients-in-icu-are-not-vaccinated
Between Jan and July 2021 there were 640 vaccinated deaths in UK which was 1.2% of covid deaths (51281).
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021
I'd say the vaccines were working well and if you're not vaccinated get jabbed asap.
On reddit there is a sub-reddit called the HermanCain Award. He was a Republican (Trump supporter) that refused to wear a mask, caught covid and died. The award is given frequently to anti-vaxxers who have usually posted about how they are not a sheep and won't wear masks or get vaccinated because it's against their human rights, they then post from the ICU asking for prayers and, subsequently, die.
Similarly, I've just read an article from a respiratory doctor bemoaning the fact that our NHS ICUs are being filled with anti-vaxxers.
What angers me is how it now makes me feel - I have no sympathy for these people and have caught myself thinking "good" when another (moron) passes away. I didn't use to be like this and it's a side of me I don't like.
What is wrong with people that ignore scientific advice and get their directions from social media. Are people really that stupid? I was vaccinated but still caught the virus but I'm alive because, perhaps, I trusted the virologists and listened to their advice. I have to consider, though, that I'm a bad person because of my lack of tolerance for idiots.
I had my booster today.
your a media wh0re.......
your a media wh0re.......
maybe,
and to prove your point, here's an article on 300 years of protests over vaccines with a nice cartoon showing how the smallpox vaccine can turn you into a cow (from which it was originally derived).
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02671-0
... but at least I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I am concerned over my lack of compassion when antivaxxers subsequently die, which was the point of my initial post.
All drugs have side effects, aspirin can make your stomach bleed, ibuprofen (and all nsaids) can cause heart attacks but I bet antivaxxers gulp them down. Step on a rusty nail? Get a tetanus shot - who wants lockjaw? What's in it, no idea. Trust the science? Yes.
Does medical science screw up? Of course - thalidomide springs to mind.
I had my (Pfizer) booster yesterday and still cannot hear Bill Gates nor feel strangely drawn to 5G cell towers nor download Windows 11 - maybe that comes later.
btw it's "you're" not "your" :p
SV650rules
22-11-21, 08:54 AM
I know AZ is not mRNA, that is why i was happy to accept it ( 2 doses ) but since Sarah Gilbert ( Oxford Professor of immunology involved in AZ vaccine ) said publicly that boosters were not needed and could do more harm than good it seems the NHS do not seem to offer AZ, they only offer ( in our area ) Pfizer and Moderna, which is why I will not be getting a booster anytime soon.. I know the government spent £Billions on mega-expensive Pfizer etc, but do they really need to use up the excess vaccines jabbing 5 year olds ?
The vaccines against smallpox, polio etc work because that virus is very stable and can actually be wiped out in human population if enough get vaccinated, but coronavirus mutate very easily and most experts ( except the tame government ones ) advise NOT vaccinating during a pandemic because it causes the virus to mutate more quickly, just like overuse of antibiotics has caused highly resistant bacteria. In the normal course of things the most virulent virus strains, the oner that kill their host will die out, because by killing their host they limit their own spread, and the milder variants will take over because by not killing their host they spread further and faster, which is a good strategy, and getting immunity against the milder variants gives long lasting protections against other strains ( like cowpox gave protection against smallpox ). I actually think the world has gone crazy in their thinking on this subject, with governments calling in the army to quell protests.....
i'm not a tin hatter nor a conspiracy theorist nor anti-vaticination. i'm sensible and due to heart problems i will not take the covid vaccine. covid if im not mistaken is a form of flu. but according to you i'm a moron for not taking the jab. i have never had a flu jab either. if i die tomorrow from covid then so be it, its been a good life. i do take precautions when out and about, you would be daft not to.
its all blown out of proportion by the media and the only real way to tell if hospital beds are taken up with people dying of covid is to actually go to there and find out. not to listen or read that they are.
getting the jab DOES NOT stop you getting covid, the only thing it might do is lessen the severity. if im not mistaken getting the jab can cause you to be a carrier and not know so whats safer people showing and having symptoms or hiding them and passing the virus on.
i also don't watch then news and haven't read a newspaper in 30 years. i think that makes me unbiased.
who the real morons are, are the people who have been jabbed and now think that they cant get covid so go out to film theatres, concerts, gyms and swimming etc.etc.
covid is here to stay and is going to kill people and there is absolutely nothing that can be done. the more you vaccinate people the more resilient the virus will get.
oohh and i may be dyslecit but far from stupid.
according to the symptoms i have had covid twice....... i'm still here. maybe the third time will be my last but as i said i dont care, i have had a decent life up to now.
SV650rules
22-11-21, 10:01 AM
By 'flattening the curve' to save the NHS the curve has been prolonged into the future, look at past virus behaviour and they die out as the less virulent strains take over, but by vaccinating everybody, their 5 year old and maybe their dog next it has skewed the path of this virus. The lockdowns have caused untold damage to peoples health, so we have a lot of 'deaths postponed' in the pipeline, and they may well exceed the dodgy 'died from covid' figures. Problem is, future deaths caused by our response to covid will just get lumped into, died from cancer, died from heart disease etc and may not be ascribed to the ham-fisted response to covid.
maybe,
All drugs have side effects, aspirin can make your stomach bleed,
I have read credible reports than many of the victims of 1918 flu died from aspirin poisoning, Bayer pushed Aspirin as the magic bullet to cure the flu, but they were giving patients doses big enough to kill an Ox.
Of course Bayer rubbed their hands all the way to the bank, which is what Pfizer is doing now ( AZ vaccines were sold at cost and freely licensed for other companies to make ). I have also read that Pfizer was one of the companies who were involved in paying Wuhan lab to investigate coronavirus from bats - that was as early as 2015... So you manufacture a virus then make an eye-watering amount of money selling an expensive vaccine against that virus.
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