Abortion

as much as possible it should be a joint decision. I know my OH and and I have very different views on it, for any reason. He wouldn't hesitate to abort a fetus that had downs or spina bifida, where as I am not so sure. I know that children with downs can go on to lead healthy and relatively fufilled lives. But I also know he'd leave me if I chose not to abort - what do you do. =/ (slightly off topic sorry)

men do seem to get a hard time when it comes to a TOP or miscarriage, sometimes they aren't involved enough, given enough counselling etc, like you say it's their baby too.

As for those who use abortion as contraception - getting pregnant is the leat of their worries, i'd be more concerned abour HIV or the various other STI's that are going about. Stupid people.

[Biker Biggles]

Originally Posted by Magnum

I believe that life begins at conception, and although the baby cannot feel pain up to 24 weeks, it is still potential for a normal healthy life.


However, i think abortion IS OK when the mother/baby are in danger. If i was told my child has a 50%+ chance of being born severely disabled, i would abort it to avoid the pain for him/her.

Cant have your cake and eat it mate.If you take the fundamentalist religeous view that life begins at conception you cant then approve of killing off the potentially severely disabled.Neither can you go for the deliberate killing of one "life" to save another.Which all goes to show that this subject is far more complex than a silly poll on a bike site can ever do justice to.

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by stewie

Thing for me is, when do you class a bunch of cells as a human being, see, my adopted daughters were both born very prematurely, 20 yrs ago they may not have survived and with the increase in medical knowledge premature babies are being born younger and going on to lead healthy lives, the other thing of course is that if you,re a bloke you might as well be a sperm donor in these cases, cos no one seems to give a **** how you might feel, when my wife miscarried it was my child that died as well, and yet I barely got a pat on the back, I know that the women has to go through it all and Im sure Ill get flamed for my comments but I just think that it should be a joint decision thats all

As I said in my OP, I think it has to be a womans decision finally whether to go through a termination or not. Not because I don't think a man has rights, but because I don;t think we can force each other to use our bodies against our will.

As for any case of miscarriage or a termination that is not wanted by the father, I totally agree that men seem to get very little support or thought in coping with these things.

I think men get all too easily forgotten when it comes to most issues surrounding children and the loss of children, both pre and post birth is, in my opinion, equally difficult for both man and woman. It's still a child that you have decided to have that you love from the moment you find out it is there and so when there is a miscarriage or death at any time in life, it is both the man and woman that lose that child and subsequently have to deal with that loss. Of course there are differences as it is the woman that carries the child, but in cases where children are lost, I think it is abohrant that men can be forgotten.

I think abortion is always ok as long as it is not being used as a method of contraception. The majority of women (& couples) wrestle with a decision as heavy as this, whereas the very few think its ok to have unprotected sex because they "can just get an abortion if they're pregnant"

Women should have the greatest influence in the decision because at the end of the day they are the ones that are carrying the child and will eventually give birth to it. That's not to say that I think men aren't allowed to have a role in the decision - of course they can. I just think that the final decision should be the womans.

I know someone who had an abortion - she was only 16. The circumstances weren't right: she was only a child herself and would not be able to give the child a life it deserved. Sure there are sterile couples who could have provided it with a home - but the trauma of giving birth then giving the child away would have been far too great. She still has bouts of guilt about the decision to this day but knows in her heart it was right.

The choice of abortion should never be removed. Especially when if the woman gets pregnant through awful circumstances i.e. rape

Maria

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

I think its always OK, but its not a decision thats taken lightly and neither is the decision to keep a baby one thats taken lightly either.

Final choice lies with the mother.

In an ideal world, I'd agree with you-but knowing a few people who have had more than one, and taken the decision very lightly, I don't.

I think abortion should be available for victims of rape, incest, and for some medical reasons, but it should be limited to 12-14 weeks, the law as it stands is a total outrage and it makes me very angry-babies can survive in many cases when born at the legal abortion limit, and that's reprehensible.

Originally Posted by Biker Biggles

Cant have your cake and eat it mate.If you take the fundamentalist religeous view that life begins at conception you cant then approve of killing off the potentially severely disabled.Neither can you go for the deliberate killing of one "life" to save another.Which all goes to show that this subject is far more complex than a silly poll on a bike site can ever do justice to.

Im not taking a religious view on this, im not religious. I know the idea of life beginning at conception is religious, but i dont see when else the foetus become life, its a bit hard to judge.

Originally Posted by shonadoll

In an ideal world, I'd agree with you-but knowing a few people who have had more than one, and taken the decision very lightly, I don't.

I think abortion should be available for victims of rape, incest, and for some medical reasons, but it should be limited to 12-14 weeks, the law as it stands is a total outrage and it makes me very angry-babies can survive in many cases when born at the legal abortion limit, and that's reprehensible.

+1 to this whole post. 24 weeks is ridiculous. Yeah the chances of survival are very limited, but its still possible. I heard quite a nasty story of a 'terminated' baby quite far along the line and it was left to die for hours in a metal bowl in the hospital. This obviously isnt a regular occurrance, but for a baby to survive outside the womb at a legal age for abortion, it worries me.

To the posts about abortion being used as contraception, i aggree, and this is the reason i started the thread in the first place. Someone i used to go to school with got pregnant, and just aborted it as soon as she found out. She does not go to school, does not work, and would have plenty of time and support from her family to look after a baby.

Im going to dig up a thread to show an example of someone doing the right thing...

[Biker Biggles]

Originally Posted by Magnum

Im not taking a religious view on this, im not religious. I know the idea of life beginning at conception is religious, but i dont see when else the foetus become life, its a bit hard to judge.

Religeon or not you miss the point.If you take the view that life starts at conception then you will be anti abortion in any circumstances or you will have to condone the taking of life.As most of the posts here demonstrate thats a bit simplistic,so we have to make difficult decisions which is why your simple yes or no poll is a daft question.

I dont see why i cant think that life starts at conception, and cannot think that in some circumstances the life cant be ended for the better? I dont see why life beginning at conception is an idea that cancells out justified abortion. Its the same for euthenasia, i think in some select circumstances it is justified.
The poll is just a general idea of peoples views. The thread itself is for the opinions in more detail.


I suppose relevant to this thread, here is what i was looking for http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=127028

[Biker Biggles]

The debate about euthanasia is slightly different.Its about adults in full command of their faculties coming to a decision about when their own lives should end.Terminating disabled people is what the Nazis did.Hence when does life begin and who is a person and who isnt?We have settled on the 24 week rule as a measure of when life is viable,but it is a much more fluid concept than "life begins at---"
If you listen to the Pope life seems to begin before conception as its a sin to use a condom??????