New Car - petrol or diesel

[mikerj]

Originally Posted by neio79

Maybe, however i find modern Diesels just as quiet and only a hint of noise under acceleration.

Sorry, but the only people that say that are the ones that have convinced themselves of this, a bit like the people buying solid silver mains cables for their Hi-Fi systems and insisting they can hear the difference. I've not yet found a diesel car that isn't instantly recognisable as a diesel, especialy the rough clattering from cold. Even the otherwise lovely 6 cylinder BMW diesels sound like a taxi from cold, and the vibration at idle is certainly noticeable from inside unless you pretend to ignore it. The other favourite excuse is the road tax being lower; some appear to think it makes sense to spend many thousands of pounds on a new diesel car to save up to a couple of hundred pounds a year

Diesels make sense if you have a company car where the manufacturers stated CO2 output determines your tax liability, and if and when it breaks you don't have pay to get it fixed. They may make sense for private ownership for people doing high mileages, but you have to trade off the potential nightmare bills. They make absolutely no sense for people who have low annual mileage, mostly around congested towns and cities were the fuel economy is simply a non-issue. They make even less sense if you actually enjoy driving and want a drivers car.

If you are comparing modern diesel and petrol performance with respect to it being a "drivers car" and favouring the petrol, you are right, BUT probably not comparing apples with apples.

My 1.8 VVT 140 Vectra is slow as slug. The EQUIVALENT diesel is the 1.9 CDTI 150, which is a damn sight more responsive due to the torque it produces. Sure the VXR wil be quicker again, and a much nicer engine (if there is such thing as Vectra "drivers car") but thats not realy apples with apples is it.

I love turbo diesel engined cars, I do low mileage in my car btw.
The equivalent petrol car is nowhere near as torquey, you can thrash a TDI and still get really good mpg, do that in a petrol and your mpg will really suffer.
The noise of my golf doesn't bother me in the slightest, I have drove noisier petrol cars.
It's the fact the diesel fuel is so much more money, when it's cheaper to produce.
Only downside for me is the fact they don't rev as high as a petrol engine, if they could 6k redline that would make them very good.

When I have my car sitting on the drive all week I like the fact that the tax is only £115, the less the tax man gets the better.

Originally Posted by mikerj

This is blatantly untrue in the case of modern common rail engines.

no its not mate, there are many factors which will determine how reliable a car is but it being petrol or diesel is not really one of them. Common rail does have its faults but do you not think there are petrol engines out there with problems. Its all about how its been maintained and cared for plus a little bit of luck on your side.

I agree with Baph! Some manufacturers diesels will be more reliable than another's petrols and vice versa.

I think diesels are probably more expensive to repair on average when they do go, the turbos cost well over a grand.

Diesels still have better overall longevity than petrols forgetting replaceable auxiliaries like turbos, they still rev lower, but that has dropped with modern engines too. My Uncle runs 10 or so Mondeo's at a time, and runs them into the ground, the Mk1 didn't last as long as the Sierra, and the Mk2 with the TDCI are not lasting as long as the Mk1. The more torque they put out the more stressed the engine components are.

I think people need to make the choice based on life. I drive a citroen C1 which i've had converted to Gas. I got the p!$$ taken but i don't care becausdrive a van 5 days a week and don't want bills for a car i don't use. My brother is clocking mileage in it to make the gas worth it.

On the argument on petrol vs diesel, comparing Vauxhall Combo vans (1.4 Dual Fuel vs. 1.2 Diesel) the 1.4 have had full rebuilds every 50k and have never been right since rebuilds or been okay for 100k where as the diesels seem to be blowing up turbos at 60k, engine at 60k or okay for 106k. All serviced by the same garage, looked after. And before someone is smart the gas vans haven't run on gas for longer than 5k.

The petrol vans are appauling but go well in comparision to the diesels. But comparing them to the Vivaro vans they are beasts and pretty reliable in comparision to the Combos. Not much more gutsy on fuel either.

[mikerj]

Originally Posted by irons

no its not mate, there are many factors which will determine how reliable a car is but it being petrol or diesel is not really one of them.

Sorry but these days it is one of them (I am refering specifically to engine reliability). Petrol and diesel engines share the same basic components, but common rail diesels have fragile injectors, high pressure pumps that have ridiculously tight tolerances and are highly stressed, dual mass flywheels that take a pounding due to the massive torque peaks, turbochargers that work under very harsh conditions and these day particulate filters that don't work very well under the short cycle times of city driving. Unsurprisingly all these parts are failure points, sometimes at surprisingly low mileages

What the the weak points on a petrol engine? Maybe the odd coil pack. Loads of potential sensor faults of course, but most of these are common with the diesel (MAF, electronic throttles, crank sensors etc). Some petrols have DMFs these days, but they are under less stress than on a diesel.

[mikerj]

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Diesels still have better overall longevity than petrols forgetting replaceable auxiliaries like turbos,

"replaceable auxiliaries"?? You could get a petrol engine rebored with new pistons and rings for the cost of a new turbo.

Originally Posted by thefallenangel

On the argument on petrol vs diesel, comparing Vauxhall Combo vans (1.4 Dual Fuel vs. 1.2 Diesel) the 1.4 have had full rebuilds every 50k and have never been right since rebuilds or been okay for 100k where as the diesels seem to be blowing up turbos at 60k, engine at 60k or okay for 106k.

1.4 and 1.6 vans that are constantly ragged by people who dont actually own them or have to pay for the running of them will always be a problem.
Smallish engines all being driven like they are stolen etc no wonder the turbos are failing.

[Viney]

Hydrogen