The supernatural poll

[ophic]

Originally Posted by Bri w

Does it need to be reproducible to be true? The Titanic only sank once, and the Lindenburg only crashed once...

My Grandma can't die again to reproduce what happened on that day. I know its true, and so does the guy I was working with who heard me blurt out, "Grandma has died."

I still hold a huge amount of scepticism for an awful lot of the stories I've heard/read but I can't discount them.

The Titanic event is reproducible. Crash a huge boat into a huge iceberg and see what happens. Same with Lindenburg. Understandably, no-one wants to reproduce these though, and it's not necessary because no-one disputes that it happened.

Your Grandma is a better example, as this is an "event" that was "observed" by you and no-one else, and is therefore impossible to prove to anyone else.

It doesn't need to be reproducible to be true, but science is about mapping out the world (or otherwise) around us, so we can predict what will happen in similar circumstances. There's no point in creating scientific theories about unreproducible events, as that's just of no use to us.

[ophic]

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

...but FACT they are there.

Exactly. We don't need to prove why, or how, unless we want to understand more. However we can prove those things exist.

But we haven't even got to that stage with ghosties. We can't attempt to understand something if we can't even prove it's there.

[dizzyblonde]

But people like to try and prove why and how, thats the point.
People know ghosts, spirits, guardians, spirit guides exist, but nobody understands why they are there...unless you try and understand.
Science doesn't come into it, and it will take years for that to ever happen.
Like Ed said earlier in the thread, until a few hundred years ago people thought the world was flat, because some person looked upon as knowledgeable with the facts, was believed by the masses. It wasn't until whatever bloke it was came back and said he hadn't fallen off that everyone believed.


Most people can't be bothered or don't want to understand.
Then those that deny they exist say people are weird, they can't be right in the head or try arguing that they are indeed the ones that are right.

[Spiderman]

i know i'm not right in the head but i also know they exist. It'd be silly to not believe in the face of all the anecdotal "evidence" kinda like its silly to believe we are the only life form in the entire universe. But some still wanna believe that too cos they wont believe till they have "proof".

Ghosts are one of those things that we'd all like to believe in. Life after death? Watching your loved ones live? Prank playing? Haunting your killer? Yes please, sounds better than lights-off end-of. Although if the only way I can communicate is through the conveniently vague Derek Acorah I think I'd prefer the latter.

Show me something the least bit believable and I'll not discount it.

PS: Doesn't help that every ghost "communicator" is obviously a blatant charlatan. If they exist why aren't these people found out, and why is there never something solid? You certainly aren't going to be able to prove you exist to anybody, if you do become a ghost.

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

i know i'm not right in the head but i also know they exist. It'd be silly to not believe in the face of all the anecdotal "evidence" kinda like its silly to believe we are the only life form in the entire universe. But some still wanna believe that too cos they wont believe till they have "proof".

Got it on one there Spidey.


I questioned my mum about the whole ghost seeing thing when she popped up this afternoon. Seeing as though they have one in their house.

I said to her my dads not the type to go believing in ghosts. Dads the sort of person that says, black is black and white is white.
She said he didn't believe they existed until he saw my grandmother many years ago(in their first house). They had a spate of wondering why they kept hearing someone come thundering up the stairs, but never coming back down, or vice versa. Always when they were in bed. She was very ill and carrying me at the time.
He physically saw the ghost of my grandmother pacing round my mum one night and told her he would look after her and to stop worrying. She left.
My mum had visits from her not long after she died, but that was a couple of years before.

Dad says to people who don't think they exist, is to never dismiss what you know nothing about.

[ophic]

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

But people like to try and prove why and how, thats the point.

not a scientific approach though. You can't explain why or how when you can't prove that it is.

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

People know ghosts, spirits, guardians, spirit guides exist, but nobody understands why they are there...unless you try and understand.

Perhaps some people do, but I'd dispute that "people in general" do, at least without also proving that "people in general" aren't a very reliable source.

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

Science doesn't come into it, and it will take years for that to ever happen.

No it doesn't, for those who have enough evidence that they've witnessed themselves, they need no further proof. For the rest of us, science is the only way to go. There's no other way of proving something that isn't directly observed.

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

Like Ed said earlier in the thread, until a few hundred years ago people thought the world was flat, because some person looked upon as knowledgeable with the facts, was believed by the masses. It wasn't until whatever bloke it was came back and said he hadn't fallen off that everyone believed.

But they all agreed that the world existed. So they'd already got past that fundamental hurdle.

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

Most people can't be bothered or don't want to understand.

Probably true.

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

Then those that deny they exist say people are weird, they can't be right in the head or try arguing that they are indeed the ones that are right.

Proving that something doesn't exist is a lot harder than proving that something does. Probably impossible, in fact - hence the burden of proof must be to prove that it does exist, or the null hypothesis is that it doesn't.

[yorkie_chris]

Science doesn't come into it? Yet you post this on a computer...

You got to see the irony there.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

...unless you try and understand.

Meaning you must already have the desire for them to exist, thus swaying you toward thinking you saw something.

Hence all the inbreds in Alabama with doritos shaped like jesus.

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

People know ghosts, spirits, guardians, spirit guides exist, but nobody understands why they are there...unless you try and understand.

People THINK they know ghosts, spirits, guardians, spirit guides exist,