Ban bikes from Welsh national parks?

Motorcyclists "blighting" other road users? I hope they crack down on the 4x4s that "blight" me every time I go up the mountains. Their ****witted antics are vastly more dangerous than my occassionally visiting the ton on roads where it's safe to do so.

As an aside, wow, I'd never seen a crashed Goldwing before!

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

In regard to what?

In regards to minding your own business.

LP rides the roads of North Wales regularly (and no doubt more regularly than YOU sir) and as such is probably in a better position to comment on the riding of other bikers that frequent that area, and is almost without a doubt in a better position to comment than your good self.

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

It doesn't matter how good a rider LP is, no-ones immune to target fixation and it doesn't make what he said any less inaccurate either.

I'm sure LP will attest to the dangers of target fixation However, I've been out for a few rides with LP and let me be the first to commend him on his riding. He makes good progress SAFELY. I don't agree with LP's solution of banning them or taking their licences away but I certainly wouldn't have the bad manners to criticise his riding because of the point of view he holds.

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Why, because I disagree with someone who with no solid basis thinks people should have their licence taken away?

Well if you could formulate an argument without "getting personal" then I'd have a debate with you about it.

Until such time, I'll bid you good day and be on my way.

I think the top officers of N Wales Police have had their fill of dealing with accidents (and deaths) involving riders from outside the area and I'm sure their sentiments are matched by the other emergencey services, they are getting desparite, and we are not seen to be helping.
There's little point in North Wales Police investing heavily in Bikesafe etc., if riders do not take the message, so we shouldn't be surprised if they go for a huge shock effect.
I think we can all agree that the avoidable death of any motorcyclist is unnacceptable, and we should do all we can to police ourselves, that means that bikers that voice the ride safe message, should be respected. It should only be "mind your own business" when your actions have no effect on others. If everyone take's up the MYOB cause solo bikers can expect to lie bleeding to death at the roadside.
Welsh roads have a character peculiar to mountain, heath and moorland. The road layout is often very old, they are not designed with fixed radius bends. Corners tighten up, frequently with a very long drop to one side. Riding mistakes on wide urban modern roads can go "unpunished", mountain roads are no so forgiving. The weather in mountainous areas is very tough on road surfaces. Changes in temperature of over 10 degrees between sun and shade are not uncommon. This causes the road surface to quickly break up. Gravel accumulates at the centre of the road as well as the edges.
This is the type of information (and I'm sure there's more), that I would like to see N. Wales Police publish, not this unworkable weekend ban rubbish.
It would be interesing to see the accident figures for adventure sports like canoeing, caving, climbing and walking up Snowden in flip-flops, perhaps these activities should be banned on days ending in "Y".

Originally Posted by Luckypants

My own observation would be that many of these happen at the bend at the end of a straight, where the rider arrives much faster than they expect / cope with.

And we are not talking about folks doing 90 on 60 either. 110 + quite often...

Seems a logical argument. However, I can't help that thinking that 20mph difference (90 instead of 110, or 80 instead of 100 for example) would make little difference to someone misjudging a slow corner from 60mph+.

Originally Posted by Pedro68

In regards to minding your own business.

I'm not quite sure how I can be told to mind my own business for asking someone to mind their own business.

Originally Posted by Pedro68

I'm sure LP will attest to the dangers of target fixation However, I've been out for a few rides with LP and let me be the first to commend him on his riding. He makes good progress SAFELY. I don't agree with LP's solution of banning them or taking their licences away but I certainly wouldn't have the bad manners to criticise his riding because of the point of view he holds.

I wasn't actually criticising his riding. How can I, I've never seen him ride. I was simply saying that no-ones riding is perfect, so we should look at ourselves and endeavour to improve our own riding before criticising others.

Originally Posted by Mogs

I think we can all agree that the avoidable death of any motorcyclist is unnacceptable, and we should do all we can to police ourselves, that means that bikers that voice the ride safe message, should be respected. It should only be "mind your own business" when your actions have no effect on others. If everyone take's up the MYOB cause solo bikers can expect to lie bleeding to death at the roadside.

When I say MYOB, I mean to the extent that people should concerntrate on improving their own riding instead of looking for fault in others. That does not mean I think bikers shouldn't be given education, or be given assistance should the worst happen.

I'd have say that banning bikes would be unacceptable. Biker deaths are unfortunately, often not avoidable. They're an unfortunate consiquence of a lifestyle choice that leaves us vunerable in the event of an accident, and banning them IS the only way to totally remove the risk.

[Luckypants]

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Seems a logical argument. However, I can't help that thinking that 20mph difference (90 instead of 110, or 80 instead of 100 for example) would make little difference to someone misjudging a slow corner from 60mph+.

I was not making the case that 90 is OK and 110 is not OK as a corner approach speed. What I was trying to point out to readers is that the speeds some bikers get up to on these roads is very high. A lot of folks might consider 90 to be a fast speed, so I was pointing up that the speeds I'm talking about are much higher than this.

The two accidents this weekend that have led to the latest call to ban bikes happened on a road where I see these kinds of speeds from other bikes all the time. They come flying past me and often catch me unawares, even though I'm on the look out for them. I tend not to ride this road much.

I do not know the exact circumstances of either crash and am not saying any of the causes were down to excess speed or rider error. I am merely pointing out what I know of the road as a local and folks will be able to see what conclussion other locals might draw, even if they don't know the facts. This might make Inspector Geraint Anwyl's call for a ban on bikes seem attractive.

You've never done 90(+) then?

Wasn't gonna post but gonna let my feelings known about LP's riding. I've rode with Mike a few times before and i can vouch he rides on rails(never seems to think he is). I like to ride with him because i feel within my limits when i ride with him. The man doesnt go over 90 on straights as there is no point really. When he say's he would rather have fun in the twisties, whats wrong with that? Everyone does. All his points and arguments are his own views (trust me i've spoken to him about a lot, I am his Padewan!). So forgive me if i seem a c0ck FS, maybe because I am, but, he's got a point!

Pedro...You confused me

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

So in fact, as someone who like to 'have fun in the twisties', you're actually a prime candidate for getting yourself killed.

THAT in my book is not just criticising LP's riding, it is making an ASSUMPTION too. Double-bad.

So to actually continue and tell him "MYOB" is IMO out of order FS

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Seems a logical argument.

Something this thread seems to be lacking

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

I wasn't actually criticising his riding.

I disagree. If you're gonna tell someone they are "a prime candidate for killing themselves" then you are assuming that their riding is gonna be the cause, otherwise how else is LP making himself a prime candidate?

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

When I say MYOB, I mean to the extent that people should concerntrate on improving their own riding instead of looking for fault in others.

Well why not say what you mean instead of all this "MYOB" bo||ocks?!

FS, there was just no need to be so confrontational about LP's post.

Originally Posted by Pedro68

THAT in my book is not just criticising LP's riding, it is making an ASSUMPTION too. Double-bad.

So to actually continue and tell him "MYOB" is IMO out of order FS


Something this thread seems to be lacking


I disagree. If you're gonna tell someone they are "a prime candidate for killing themselves" then you are assuming that their riding is gonna be the cause, otherwise how else is LP making himself a prime candidate?


Well why not say what you mean instead of all this "MYOB" bo||ocks?!

FS, there was just no need to be so confrontational about LP's post.

Anyone remember that Nancy Sinatra song.....

Bang Bang i shot you down, bang banggggg you hit the grounddddd! Bang banggggg that awful sound! Bang Banggggggg my Pedro shot you downnnn!