Road Works Traffic Lights:

[Messie]

Errr, why would you want to 'lawfully' protest? You don't accept that the 'laws' of this country apply to you.

On another note, I chose to comply with the laws of this country. I generally like to do so, as it contributes to the overall 'peaceful' status of this country (yes, I know that doesn't apply everywhere at all times).

Oh and I aslo found out that much of the Freeman of this land stuff is hosted on David Icke's site. 'Nuff said for me

Originally Posted by Messie

Errr, why would you want to 'lawfully' protest? You don't accept that the 'laws' of this country apply to you.

On another note, I chose to comply with the laws of this country. I generally like to do so, as it contributes to the overall 'peaceful' status of this country (yes, I know that doesn't apply everywhere at all times).

Oh and I aslo found out that much of the Freeman of this land stuff is hosted on David Icke's site. 'Nuff said for me

Why would i or anyone else want to lawfully protest against anything the government does Hmm i have no idea as they are so great all the time .

Most of the Freeman stuff isnt on the David Icke forum, yes people discuss it on there also just as i am doing here.

You dont choose to comply with the law's of this country, you are just a peacefull living entity along with the majority of other's, the amount of bad guy's / Boogey men is smaller than you have been led to believe.

[Messie]

And point spectacularly missed!

Originally Posted by Messie

And point spectacularly missed!

it wasnt, just a difference between legal and lawfull..

Can we start a new thread on Freeman of the land stuff and everyone can go debate it with Markmoto in there until their hearts content? This is second thread in as many weeks which has completely derailed since Markmoto posted something controversial.

[Messie]

I agree. And hold my hands up to my part in the nuisance too. Sorry normal people.

Right, any more FOTL type posts from now on in this thread will be zapped, ok?

Anymore on that topic in a new thread, please (if only to protect my own feeble sanity, so I know what to ignore)

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Can we start a new thread on Freeman of the land stuff and everyone can go debate it with Markmoto in there until their hearts content? This is second thread in as many weeks which has completely derailed since Markmoto posted something controversial.

Agreed Ralph, it wasnt my intention to carry on posting i was just replying to other people's post's, i did intend just to make my original post which was quite relevant with the direction the post's where going, i,e traffic violation's, i wont be posting anymore after this one.

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by markmoto

There is no other way to lawfully protest against such thing's other than by not consenting,

There are plenty of alternative ways to protest which do not involve breaking the law. Refusing to take part is only effective if it's done in public and it's clear what the protest is about. Way back when, I refused to pay the Poll Tax because I believed it was a poorly thought out, regressive and unfair tax.

When the tax was repealed I paid my arrears plus interest. Thousands did the same. The object was to protest and make the tax difficult to collect, not to avoid my obligation to society.

I deliberately broke the rules to make a point and I would have done exactly the same if compulsory ID cards had been brought in, as would many others.

I don't have an issue with non-compliance if I feel the matter is important enough. But I also don't believe I am, or should be, immune to the consequences that might follow.

I've also been a member of a political party, been round knocking doors., delivering leaflets and speaking to people prior to elections, resigned from said political party and I also vote. All these are legitimate means of protest against elements of the current system and don't break the law.

Originally Posted by markmoto

this particular matter is about speed camera's, there is no such thing as magic word's, it's just a case of knowing what to say in the right way and at the right time.

But it's not about speed cameras is it? If I understand you correctly, you're embarking on a defence that you are not in contract with the state and therefore are not subject to their rules. That's taking the issue quite some distance away from speed cameras IMO.

In any event, you did not set out to make a pricipled point about these unfair rules - you just got caught.

Originally Posted by markmoto

You refer above to Punishment sound's alot like slavery to me i,e you either comply or you will be punished, well i choose not to consent to this, and when you start not consenting to thing's it open's up a whole new world you didnt even know existed.

Really?? A small fine and 3 points sounds **** all like actual slavery to me - I think that's a bit melodramatic. As a society we make rules and we devise punishments/censures/reparations/forfeitures (pick the one you like best) for those that stray outwith those rules. Any society needs to operate like that to survive. The only real argument is about the fairness of those rules and the suitability of the punishment.

There is no "them" and "us". The Government ARE us, as are the police. As individuals we have grouped together and sold some of our individual freedom for security. That seems very sensible.

You may, like me, believe that sometimes we sell too much but that's no reason to cast the entire system aside.

To pick and choose which parts of society you will take part in with no regard to the wishes of the majority is undemocratic, selfish and, well, just rude.


EDIT: Ooops. Sorry Messie. Please transfer this to a FOTL thread if and when anyone ever starts one.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Nobody buys a new highway code every 5 years and reads it. That is the reality of the world we live in and the authorities should take that into account. I think changes in traffic laws should trigger a TV and radio advert for a period of time.

A similar advertising campaign to remind and re-educate drivers on things like lane discipline, who has priority where and when, etc, would be very successful too.

Now I'm not picking on you personally!

Why do we have to rely on people telling us what we should do we are human and should be able to dothing for ourselves. If its introduced a mandatory then its a nanny state, if its left up to us then we do nothing and then people complain when they are caught out by it or don't like what it say because they don't know about it.

But I do agree that it is a good idea when there are fundamental changes but they don't work - mobile phones were followed by a big campaign yet people still do it and still complain when they are caught ( as in speeding - so you missed the big red and white sign with a big 30 in it [don't get me started])

To me we are on the roads every day and maybe i am a 'swat' but I like to know the basics of the laws that govern me on there. Maybe it the IAM training and needing to know the basics.

Maybe I am just bonkers and totally weird. ( there's awhole new debate)

[NTECUK]

You have to admit its not a thing you encounter every day . It used to be ok to do up to the mid 90s now It's not.
So blody sneaky I think .