Insurance

I've just received a letter referenced "Claims Underwriting Database Check" from my insurers (Carole Nash). This is in relation to an at fault claim made on my car insurance earlier in the year that hadn't been reported when my bike insurance renewed.

It was my wife who had the accident so it didn't occur to me I needed to declare it for the bike.

The original premium was £130 and they're after a further £60 to keep me insured. I understand there's a requirement to report these things but it's quite galling to have to pay almost 50% extra for something that had nothing to do with me.

I only renewed two months ago so asked what would happen if I cancelled my insurance - according to their customer services I'd only get £18 back if I cancelled now (due to fixed charges), and probably not even that as they would count the additional £60 as being due.

Anything I can do other than a) pay up, or b) cancel and take the hit?

[Bibio]

hhhmmm sticky one. if your wife is on your car insurance then it's you who made the claim even though it was your wife that had the accident as its your insurance policy. on the other hand if your wife has her own insurance then tell them to go do one.

i hate this no claims parlava as you cant change your car no claims to a bike and viceaversa but if you have a claim it effects both policy's. suppose its just another way to rob you.

pay up and get the wife her own bloody car.

[Wideboy]

my bike claim was separate from my car insurance, i even had elephant confirm this when i bought my new car last year. i have it in writing

[ThePone]

Likewise. I had a bike crash 3 years ago and declared it to car insurance and they said it didnt affect car insurance as accident was on a bike so not relevant. Car insurance is with admiral.

My dad had exactly the same prblem, hes with carole nash too, Ive never had this with any company I've used I even asked one company several years back when i smashed the cage up if i had to declare on the bike insurance and they said no!

[TamSV]

Carole Nash do want to know about any accidents or claims you've had on other vehicles so they're right that it should have been declared.

Try running your details through their website with and without that accident and see if it actually makes a difference to the premium you're quoted. That might give you something to negotiate.

If it checks out that they're due an additional premium then the maths of it are going to mean it's probably best to just swallow it and pay up.

I know it's annoying but it's better you're getting it sorted now and not after you've made a bike claim when the consequences could have been a bit more serious.

EDIT: Do they know it was your wife that had the accident? The database wouldn't necessarily have that info. It might make a difference.

[squirrel_hunter]

As I understand it they ask the question have "You" had an accident or claim when you take the policy out. From what I can tell you have answered the question correctly and to the best of your knowledge. I cannot see how this should now effect your premium on your bike. I would question them on this.

If they attempt to stick to their position inform them that you will complain and take them to the Financial Ombudsman and that it will cost them £500 regardless of the outcome of the case. Remind them how much your premium is and how much extra they want to charge you. Then ask them if they still want to waste £300.

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by squirrel_hunter

As I understand it they ask the question have "You" had an accident or claim when you take the policy out. From what I can tell you have answered the question correctly and to the best of your knowledge. I cannot see how this should now effect your premium on your bike. I would question them on this.

The question is generally "have you had any accidents, claims or losses". The Carole Nash site explains this relates to other vehicles and other drivers. There is a specific answer in the relevant drop-down box for Terah's circumstances.

Originally Posted by squirrel_hunter

If they attempt to stick to their position inform them that you will complain and take them to the Financial Ombudsman and that it will cost them £500 regardless of the outcome of the case. Remind them how much your premium is and how much extra they want to charge you. Then ask them if they still want to waste £300.

It would take up to 8 weeks to get to the point where the ombudsman could even look at it. During that time Terah would need to pay the premium anyway or his insurance would be cancelled.

The complaint is about pricing and, as such, is doomed to failure everytime. It wouldn't be a chargeable complaint even if it got to the ombudsman. The vast majority of ombudsman claims don't attract a case fee.

That's IF this premium is actually going to the insurer. If it's just a broker fee alone then it's just a money making exercise and that's not on. They should give a breakdown of the £60 so you can see what, if anything, is going to the insurer.

There is a good argument that it shouldn't be affecting pricing so, if I was the OP, I'd try the online quote thing and also let them know the accident involved wife and car. If no further forward it might then be worth phoning up tomorrow and getting a quote on some made up info and ask if a car accident involving your wife needs to be disclosed. If you're told no, get the salespersons name and thank them.

Your next call is then to the complaints dept to get your £60 waived.

[squirrel_hunter]

Originally Posted by TamSV

The question is generally "have you had any accidents, claims or losses". The Carole Nash site explains this relates to other vehicles and other drivers. There is a specific answer in the relevant drop-down box for Terah's circumstances.

That assumes it was done on the net as oopposedto the phone as I have assumed. I've not looked at their site so am unable to say if the question is clear, but you'd have to assume not as if there is an option that fit Terah's ccircumstance then I assume as a fine upstanding member of ssocietyhe would have provided the information as requested.

Gosh, there's ala lotf assumptions there, my bad.

But I would still have to disagree with their interpretation. If it was over the phone and I were Terah with the information I have here on being asked have "You", I would say no.

Originally Posted by TamSV

It would take up to 8 weeks to get to the point where the ombudsman could even look at it. During that time Terah would need to pay the premium anyway or his insurance would be cancelled.

Yep, but hopefully on reminding them of the complaint procedure it wouldn't come to that...

Originally Posted by TamSV

The complaint is about pricing and, as such, is doomed to failure everytime. It wouldn't be a chargeable complaint even if it got to the ombudsman. The vast majority of ombudsman claims don't attract a case fee.

I would disagree with the complaint being about pricing. I see it as CN failing to einquireas to the facts of the insurance correctly and then changing their minds at a later date. 2 months later. That is an unacceptable time frame as it falls outside of the 16 day cancellation period. Now as everything is on computer, why has it taken 2 months to run a simple check?

As for the case being chargeable, the information I read on the OmOmbudsman'site didisagreesith you. Yes a company would have 3 free cases and I have no idea if CN have reached that limit, but I'd take a guess, however I'd also guess also that the call cecenteranager that you'd have to speak to wouldn't know either.

But if the case is about price and doomed to failure it doesn't matter. Even if it isn't chargeable it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if Terah even takes it that far. All you are doing is reminding them that you know the system and are willing to play it. Giving them the option of honoring their original price or end up paying more than the premium is worth for the priprivilege his money. You are playing against a call cencenternager who may and or may not know more about the system then you. It's a bit like a game of poker, bluff.

Originally Posted by TamSV

There is a good argument that it shouldn't be affecting pricing so, if I was the OP, I'd try the online quote thing and also let them know the accident involved wife and car. If no further forward it might then be worth phoning up tomorrow and getting a quote on some made up info and ask if a car accident involving your wife needs to be disclosed. If you're told no, get the salespersons name and thank them.

Your next call is then to the complaints dept to get your £60 waived.

I'd agree with that, do a little digging. Arm yourself with information and politely put your case forward.

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by squirrel_hunter

That assumes it was done on the net as oopposedto the phone as I have assumed. I've not looked at their site so am unable to say if the question is clear, but you'd have to assume not as if there is an option that fit Terah's ccircumstance then I assume as a fine upstanding member of ssocietyhe would have provided the information as requested.

Gosh, there's ala lotf assumptions there, my bad.

But I would still have to disagree with their interpretation. If it was over the phone and I were Terah with the information I have here on being asked have "You", I would say no.

I think this was a renewal so it would have been a bit of paper or an e-mail. Terah probably didn't speak to anyone or answer any questions. It's entirely understandable that he didn't disclose the claim and, in the event of a subsequent claim on the bike insurance, the information contained about disclosure of material facts on the renewal documentation would need to be looked at if his insurer wanted to avoid payment. Incidentally, I think they'd be struggling to get away with avoiding a claim in these particular circumstances.

However, the information has now come to light and IF it genuinely affects that insurers pricing then they're entitled to the correct premium.

Originally Posted by squirrel_hunter

I would disagree with the complaint being about pricing. I see it as CN failing to einquireas to the facts of the insurance correctly and then changing their minds at a later date. 2 months later. That is an unacceptable time frame as it falls outside of the 16 day cancellation period. Now as everything is on computer, why has it taken 2 months to run a simple check?.

So you don't disclose the facts (innocently or otherwise) and it's up to the insurer to find out the truth within a reasonable timescale? As a point of principle you know that can't be right.

The insurer isn't obliged to check your facts. Plenty of them will only check the database AFTER you've had a claim, and then you might be in the ****.

Originally Posted by squirrel_hunter

As for the case being chargeable, the information I read on the OmOmbudsman'site didisagreesith you. Yes a company would have 3 free cases and I have no idea if CN have reached that limit, but I'd take a guess, however I'd also guess also that the call cecenteranager that you'd have to speak to wouldn't know either.

The case fee is only charged if the complaint progresses to investigation. On reviewing the insurers final response, most of them don't make it that far. Alot of complaints have no merit so they don't get charged. Otherwise you could make a living phoning insurance companies all day demanding £100 or you'll complain about their annoying adverts or the state of their car park.

Originally Posted by squirrel_hunter

But if the case is about price and doomed to failure it doesn't matter. Even if it isn't chargeable it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if Terah even takes it that far. All you are doing is reminding them that you know the system and are willing to play it. Giving them the option of honoring their original price or end up paying more than the premium is worth for the priprivilege his money. You are playing against a call cencenternager who may and or may not know more about the system then you. It's a bit like a game of poker, bluff.

It's certainly true that you need to make it clear you're making a formal complaint. The phone jockeys can usually only "resolve" a complaint if they do it the same day. Unfortunately, most of them think that a customer shouting "**** you" and slamming down the phone is a resolution. If you make it clear you're taking the matter further then it has to go higher and someone who actually knows what they're talking about deals with it (or the operator quietly lets you off because he doesn't want to take another complaint to that ***** of a manager ). If you do get to the complaints manager they've got a lot more scope than the phone operators to do a deal or flex the company rules.

Hopefully the OP will get this one sorted out.