Abortion

Originally Posted by Magnum

but i stand firm ground on the ones using it for contraception

I've never heard of this - are you sure that's not just a myth concocted by the tabloids or the church?

Um, fwiw my stance on abortion is it depends on the individual's circumstances at the time. It's not a subject that can you just make a sweeping statement that it's either 100% right or 100% wrong.

Originally Posted by Baph

My brother & his wife are (well, I should say were) in the same boat. Only they managed with IVF.

I spent a long time not having anything to do with him, mostly because of my feelings on the whole abortion/adoption issue. I still barely talk to him now.

I personally see IVF as being the most greedy thing a couple can consciously do.

Why do you have a problem with adoption Dave ?

Originally Posted by simesb

This is not a argument against abortion. Some adopted children turn out not so good......

Some un apdopted kids turn out not so good at all, as well

I think what a lot of people in this thread are trying to say is that they are not pro-abortion, they are pro-choice.

Abortion is not a nice thing, emotionally or physically, but for some women it is the only solution. My opinion is that it's good to live in a society that is civilised enough to allow it as an option.

I have the utmost respect for any woman who goes through a pregnancy and then gives her baby up for adoption, but having seen the mental anguish that some women go through when they make the choice to terminate, I have a measure of respect for them too. I wouldn't like to live anywhere where they didn't have that choice.

[Swin]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

I think what a lot of people in this thread are trying to say is that they are not pro-abortion, they are pro-choice.

Abortion is not a nice thing, emotionally or physically, but for some women it is the only solution. My opinion is that it's good to live in a society that is civilised enough to allow it as an option.

I have the utmost respect for any woman who goes through a pregnancy and then gives her baby up for adoption, but having seen the mental anguish that some women go through when they make the choice to terminate, I have a measure of respect for them too. I wouldn't like to live anywhere where they didn't have that choice.

Seconded

I'm in a bad mood today and I just want to rant at something and this thread is a perfect place to do it. However I have been told to behave as any discussions on abortions are generally emotional.
So ( carefully does it ) I believe that having an abortion has got sod all to do with anyone other than the mother. There are NO exceptions, this however does affect the general populace in a negative way as: IE allowing a 13yr old girl to have a child, over population, etc etc.
I knew straight away that when my wife got pregnant, she had the final say and no matter what my feelings or thoughts were I had no right in making or forcing any decisions regarding her body and the growth inside her. My wife asked me if she was making the right decision and my answer was simple " I will back you up no matter what you decide as I am your husband and your friend and I love you very much."
Now I have a fantastic, funny, intelligent little girl who I adore to bits.
Just to point out something else that is completely obvious but which people tend to miss :-
Killing anything is wrong unless it is to be used for food or clothing, even then there are alternatives.
So ban abortions and then ban everything else that involves killing, otherwise you are nothing more than a hypocrite.
End of semi-rant.
Ste

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by shonadoll

I think abortion should be available for victims of rape, incest, and for some medical reasons, but it should be limited to 12-14 weeks, the law as it stands is a total outrage and it makes me very angry-babies can survive in many cases when born at the legal abortion limit, and that's reprehensible.

Indeed, I have met kids my mother delivered (she used to be a special care baby unit nurse) and looked after, some of which born at terms when they could have been aborted.

Originally Posted by Magnum

Im not taking a religious view on this, im not religious. I know the idea of life beginning at conception is religious, but i dont see when else the foetus become life, its a bit hard to judge.

Religious idea, or just an idea religions happens to agree with?

Well done for picking probably the most emotive subject going!


I can't see a foetus as just a ball of cells, it's something that could be a child. (and if it's not viable, then it isn't abortion...). You're killing something, and that requires careful thought.

As for women who are prepared to kill for their own lifestyle of loose morals, stupidity and no responsibility. Exercise your freedom to choose, and please know that given my right to choose I would suck your brains out with a sharp vacuum hose too.

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by Magnum

Thanks for your post (and yes, i did read all of it). It explains a lot of the process that i have no way of knowing myself, or will ever experience myself (thank god), and no, it doesnt sound easy (i cant even imagine having a period every month...).

Its interesting how you say it would be difficult for the mother to give away the child at birth. If it would be so difficult, then the mother obviously would have a bond with the child even if it was unwanted. But i think the point youre trying to make is not the lack of want for the child, but the inability to deal with having one, which makes sense.

The only part i disaggree on is the way you say the woman deserves 100% of the rights to choose whether or not to abort. Although she has to carry the child, it is still 50% of the fathers genes. I understand the dad gets it extremely easy for 9 months in comparison, but if i was with a woman who i got pregnant and i did not want the baby to be aborted, and i felt very strongly about it, i would feel terrible and powerless if she made the decision to terminate without my aggreement.

I know exactly what you're saying and I can't remember if I said in my original post or not, but if you read my other post you'll see that I support a fathers rights in any situation as I feel fathers are not given the consideration they deserve. However........simple mathematics says that you can never have a situation of a 50/50 input to the decision. This is because, if you were ever in this situation, as you say and your partner wanted a termination, but you didn't.....at the end of the day, if she wanted to terminate without your agreement, she could and should be able to......so then ultimately, it is 100% her decision that is being carried through. Not sure I explained that the right way!

I hate the idea that a father has to lose out on the joy of a child he wants because the woman wants a termination.....but going back to my comments in that first post, you can never force a woman to do anything with her body that she doesn't want to.

Also.....and I wasn't going to mention this, but feel now it may help you understand, one of my friends in college found out she ws pregnant, had planned to have it adopted and everything was in place. She had no maternal bone in her body as she said. However, when she gave birth and they asked if she wanted to see the baby, she said no. She did this because she didn't see the point in making things harder.
The problem was, she told us all after that she could hear nothing else in her head than her babies cry. She said when she first heard it it made her feel sick that she was even there and going through it and was relieved when the baby was taken out of the room. Two days later, she was going home with her little girl. She could not get the crying out of her head and said she felt that her entire body was aching to go to the child and hold it and comfort it. She said it was the most powerful and overwhelming feeling she has ever had and that she could not even begin to imagine how she would have coped if she had gone through with the adoption.

Not all young girls/women would be brave enough or have the support in place to do what my friend did and would have to live a life without a child that they realised they loved.

It's just a far too complicated subject for any one person, man or woman to be able to come to decisions about or form opinions on as no two pregnacies are the same in conception, situation, desire, circumstance etc.

To start talking about abortion as a form of contraception as has been mentioned a few times would need another thread as that was not a part of your original question/poll and is a whole other topic.

I can see you're taking a lot of note of everyones answers and so, I imagine the response to this thread is giving you all of the different views and opinions that you were looking for. I think it's good of you to want to understand more. Just a shame it's not a subject you will ever be able to have a cast iron opinion on. As soon as you do that, you will come across a situation that will change it again.

my feelings are so mixed on this that I'm not about to embarass my self again LOL.. So il keep it short.. It's up to the indevidual what she does and what she believes..

The every sperm is sacred beliefs are comendable however I personaly find it's very dated.
Now for the main show: I feel pregnancy in modern Britain has been abused with couples and single folks having children for benefit gains.. This over shadows the joy of having children because you want a family they can support and love.

Please read this part as it's my disclaimer : my views and opinions are based on what I see day to day as I cash giro's and broker pawn for a living so I see the worst of them everyday men and women with a seven child entourage that do not work and just claim.. So it's probably slightly twisted as i plain dont believe you should have children if you can't provide for them but abortion? I don't know maybe you should apply for a birthing license? Lol I don't know..

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by Magnum

Shes not in college, thats the point im making. She has no obligations, and inifinite support from family if she actually got off her ar5e and got a job.

It doesn't matter whether she was in college or not, had a job or not, the baby would have been disabled or not, the parents would have supported her or not.

For whatever reasons, this girl did not want to have a child. Her reasons are hers and could be incredibly complicated or really simple. Nothing IMO would make me think that it would be acceptable to ask her to have the baby and deal with it or have the baby and give i tup for adoption. It's her body. It's obviously something that has been decided upon by her, her boyfriend and family as they are still together. Hell.......the girl herself may have medical reasons that would endanger her if she were to go full term......a situation in which you agree termination is acceptable.

So.......please please don't think badly of this girl or her family or boyfriend as you have no way of knowing why she didn't have the child and she could be as deserving of your sympathy and understanding as you feel she currently is at your disapproval.

Not having a go at you, just trying to say, without being condescending that you can't just come to conclusions or judgements on other people when you know little or nothing about the circumstances.

Again........a great thread for broadening your knowledge on this.