Fuel Prices - again

[northwind]

Depends how you define national debt, that. But by the traditional ways of accounting it, nope, just did a wee google and national debt today is at about 35% of GDP, 512.4 billion. When labour took over it was at 43%, it's going back up now though.

Does this guy know how to party or what? Just think, I could be wasting my time in the pub

Originally Posted by northwind

We're well above the point where we can provide for our families though... It's a good argument but IMO it doesn't work because of this, we're well off here despite what some moaners think (the more we have, the less we appreciate it IMO) We don't have to deprive anyone here to help someone there. I totally agree that we waste a lot of money but I don't see why the world's worst off should skip dinner so that we can have sweeties after desert.

Northy you are eloquent but the basic fact is that many, many people in the United Kingdom do not have enough money to live on. We may well be a rich country as compared to others but that also means that the prices of basic commodities - housing, fuel, food, healthcare, for example - are high too. I see grinding rural poverty not 10 miles from here, and you will see it not more than 10 miles from where you live too.

And my client Nick (I have changed his name) who is mentally ill and who was in a local psychiatric hospital, he was sent home because they simply didn't have enough beds, he desperately needed help because he is so acutely depressed and the hospital sent him home ON THE BLOODY BUS because there was no ambulance and they couldn't afford a taxi.

And many of the people who post on here will know exactly what I'm talking about.

Try telling those people that they are really very well off. I don't think you'll persuade many. We should stop being a soft touch. £835m to train teachers in India. What's that all about then? When our own education service is facing severe cash shortages, and when Nick is all set to slash his wrists and comes in to see me today because he is so desperate and has nobody to talk to, why oh why are we funding people thousands of miles away who don't give a monkeys about us?

[northwind]

My point is we can help them without having to abandon others. It doesn't have to be either/or. Sides which, we don't seem to be talking about foreign aid cuts for domestic aid, we seem to want it for tax cuts.

With all the crap we could spend less on, I just think foreign aid isn't the number one suspect. I totally agree that our priorities are all wrong, I just think they're differently wrong The Trident replacement will cost more just to set up than 15 years of foreign aid, frinstance, and at least 2 billion per year to run. And it's not much use against a man in a desert with an AK47

Schools in India though... Yeah, it's a tricky one. On the one hand they're not poor- they're a nuclear superpower ffs, they could fund this themselves. But on the other, they're the world's second most populous country, and they've only got a 65% literacy rate and widespread dirt-poverty (25% of people live below their poverty line, which is also an awful lot lower than ours). Also a potential religious divide, a recent history of open warfare, and a border with Pakistan. That's not a good mix. And we know as literacy/education increases, fundamentalism and militancy decreases. They're also the third biggest muslim population in the world, and biggest concentration of moderate islam in the east, a colossal influence. Also a huge potential market, and already a vast exporter of raw materials and talent.

So back to the selfish people's justification for foreign aid, they're the world's biggest democracy and they border with a lot of people that we like less than them. And also, the world's biggest body of muslims who we're on good terms with- which is something to build on. So maybe in that light it's a small investment, India make very good friends. Maybe it's just a bribe, maybe it's a chance to gain influence that we otherwise wouldn't. Maybe it's a waste of money, who knows? Ask again in 20 years when the kids we teach grow up.

Originally Posted by Ed

No. We can start by cutting off overseas aid that is unnecessary and exceptionally generous. Like the ?850m announced recently to train teachers in india. Oh of course, we shouldn't actually do this, it's some sort of compensation for colonialism and making the place civilised. And the ?50m to help the odious Chinese (bunch of commies with zero respect for human rights, democracy, and other freedoms we take for granted) to develop clean burn fuel technology. Like they really need it. It'll end up being spent on researching more innovative means of repression.

And the millions we give to the equally odious Sudanese, who encourage ethnic cleansing and genocide in Darfur and lock up British teachers in the name of Allah.

There are many other examples. You just look at the website for the Department for International Development, it tells a lot about the gun runners and other blood-sucking parasites we bankroll.

http://www.dfid.gov.uk/aboutdfid/statistics.asp

interesting, ?50m to chinese and you think that's called aid? Chinese market and Indian market has made british company billions and billions, and will continue to do so, i call that a good will gesture. as to the comment about (bunch of commies with zero respect for human rights, democracy, and other freedoms we take for granted), may i ask what do you take for granted? 42day? democacy? to buy votes in order to pass the bill through? what you are discribing is not china, its what Britain has become. wake up

Just when we thought that all hope was lost, Big Red come up with something to to give us all hope...see link:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7456141.stm

My biggest problem with tax is what we all pay it for it never gets spent on the right things.

We all pay road tax all that money, why are the roads still fooked up? There are so many badly surfaced or just dam dangerous roads in this country.

Okay so they want us on public tranport, then why isn't serious money being spent on it, to make it work right instead of the second though hard ass attemped thats going on right now. Working in the public sector what I see happening is that the cheapest option is choose first, that explains why radio at work doesn't really work properly.

Like everyone else I pay tax, I guess I lose at least 35% a month on my pay, for which I see few benfits not just to me but to everyone else.

One of the biggest drains I see on the NHS is alchol it a never ending circle it such a dam drain which no one carers about, if that problem was solved it would go a long way to help. Since doing my current job I am shocked at much damage this drug does to socierty on every level, as sure changed how I feel about it.

As Ed mentioned about the mentally ill people, I have dealt with calls before where they have just let a sectioned patient out for a few hours to go shopping ect from a secure unit. Then call police when they don't return, is it a big surpise that they don't return, but they don't learn and just keep doing it. How is this helping anyone?

Our country is messed up right now, labour has done a lot to damage it. It will take years to undo. Something like 40% of the children in London live under the poverty line. How can people sit back and accept this?

Before we go running off to help others should we not got our own house in order first?

As for foregin aid my sister has done work work Gana, I have done work in Mexico. Speaking to alot of these people and spending time with them, they are happy just the way they are. They don't want westernisning so why are trying?

So in short we should fix the problems here first, there is a lot of work to be done. I have no problem with tax, my biggest issue is the constant mis mangerment of public funds (but hey da ya think anyone will do anything about this?) Nope casue the MP's are one the biggest abusers in the first place.

I feel your pain SV Racer but although binge drinking appears to be at epidemic levels in the U.K. you should not forget the duty being paid on drink. If the duties received where way below what it was costing to presently manage all drink related illnesses I am sure that steps would be taken...read taxation at prohibitiver levels.

Also smokers receive a lot of criticism but they again pay far more in to the nations kitty than any non smoker,so again they do not financially create a drain on the system.

You complain about poverty levels? Wicked as any poverty is, you are being dilusional if you felt that for example a Conservative administration would see that as any kind of priority. People at that end of the pecking order would not be receiving special case status any time soon from the politicians in blue. Never mistake that fact.

Originally Posted by Pedrosa

Just when we thought that all hope was lost, Big Red come up with something to to give us all hope...see link:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7456141.stm

Watched a documentary awhile ago called death of the electric car, well worth a watch, several japanese firms made electric cars which where actualy prity good range,speed etc but they made them available only on lease mainly in so/cal then out of nowhere they recalled them all and crushed them. Even though the owners were offering to buy them they crushed the lot of em. Conspiracy? oil companies? like i say definately worth a watch was very interesting. The technology is there to make zero emmision cars but there are too many people with to much to lose i ,e oil companies,investors that will do everything they can to stop us getting such cars. I quite fancy an electric bike powered buy a small cold fusion reactor
No gears just a electric motor to wind up.

If independant travel is to continue to be a privilege for most of us, we really must change our mental chip. Information regarding top end, 0 to 60 etc should never be produced. It will be important that you are able to get there, not how quick you might be able to do it. It really has to be the way forward.

Originally Posted by Pedrosa

If independant travel is to continue to be a privilege for most of us, we really must change our mental chip. Information regarding top end, 0 to 60 etc should never be produced. It will be important that you are able to get there, not how quick you might be able to do it. It really has to be the way forward.

Agree with you, bhp figures, 0-60times, top speed etc will all need to take a back seat, lets face it for there weight bikes mpg figures are prity abismal i mean with all the fuel injection technology on bikes now they should be doing alot more even if some power was sacrificed.

4X4 Chelsea tractors and cars over 2.0litre should be outlawed if you ask me, with the world the way it is and oil being a finite resource there is no room in the world for such idiotic automobiles.

"Steps down off soap box"