Feeling a bit peed off.

[Bri w]

Originally Posted by Dave20046

yeah that's how I do it, I earn them about 4-500% my salary. I'm sure average earnings for the company are usually about 3 or 4x your wage though. Maybe bri w or any employers on here could clear this up?

5 Senior Engineers earn approx £42k.
8 Engineers earn approx £37k
2 Engineers earn approx £34k (only with us two yrs, and still training.)

However the costs to be added to, for example, the Senior Eng salary are:- pension 9% of salary. N.I. at 11% of salary = £8k. On-call, £1k. Daily allow, £1.3k/yr. Then add the costs of a car, and running it, £7.2k.

Costs approx £60k to put the guy on the road.
Business expectation = £180k @ 45% gross margin = £81k.
Then deduct the £60k engineer costs, leaves £21k gross profit.

And after all that there is the back office/infrastructure/support costs.

We are having a "good" year in a difficult climate but in reality we might just break even. Hence no pay rise.

Alternatively, give a pay rise and reduce staff. Reduce staff and not meet our contratual obligations.

[fastdruid]

You could do what someone I know did, voice your dissatisfaction, close a jobserve window whenever the boss would see your screen (always leave it _just_ long enough so he can see), book a days holiday at short notice and 'confide' in someone (ideally someone you know will blab) that it's for an interview. If they want to keep you be prepared to bluster and if it works one days holiday and a bit of cunning could result in an rather nice payrise.
Of course you could actually go for an interview but that's up to you!

Oh and fwiw I'm also on support but I'm on weekly support (rather than just weekends), don't *have* to be sober, don't have to be near a computer, alternate with a colleague[1] and get 6k for it. Admittedly I do get a fair few calls but mostly not late and will have weeks without a call. I would want *far* more if I *had* to be able to dial in/go in (although I do and probably would).

Druid

[1] We work it out between ourselves so that our personal lives don't suffer, so we'll occasionally swap a few days/weekends etc if we have anything planned that would really interfere.

[squirrel_hunter]

The only thing I would add would be on the call out side of things. Is there anyone else doing it with you?

I share the call out for my team with another chap and like Fastdruid we can swap between us if we have stuff on. The other month I did 3 weeks in a row simply because the other guy had stuff that he needed to do, no problem as he did 3 weeks straight after me. We also have an agreement that I take Christmas and he takes New Year as we each prefer the other. Just something to consider as from time to time you really don't want to be on the end of a phone all weekend.

[ophic]

Originally Posted by squirrel_hunter

The only thing I would add would be on the call out side of things. Is there anyone else doing it with you?

I share the call out for my team with another chap and like Fastdruid we can swap between us if we have stuff on. The other month I did 3 weeks in a row simply because the other guy had stuff that he needed to do, no problem as he did 3 weeks straight after me. We also have an agreement that I take Christmas and he takes New Year as we each prefer the other. Just something to consider as from time to time you really don't want to be on the end of a phone all weekend.

And good old murphy says you won't get a call all year, until xmas and then something really important will break.

[Biker Biggles]

Originally Posted by Philbo

I can't believe some of the replies! OK, so people are out of work, being made redundant...What's new? Why does mean that the rest of the working population should wave there claim to a pay raise? I've witnessed 16 rounds of redundancies with varoius compies, and been directly affected by 2. So what? His company is busy, actively recruiting in his field, and making a tidy profit I bet! Why shouldn't he expect/ask for a pay raise without having to take on more responsibilities? Especialy when his pay packet is below average to start with. OK so he's getting some time off for training...which the company doesn't pay for, (if i've read the post correctly), and will benefit from. It's not as if training = cigars and brandy all round at the local 5 star hotel...does it? I can't abide this "just be gratefull you're lucky enough to have a job" crap. Everyones working life has some luck in it, good and bad, but you won't last long anywhere on luck alone. He earns his living.

RE: the posties. If you had a job which had somehow managed to retain good terms and conditions of employment, would you just through them away? Remember the posties aren't doing this for a giggle. You don't get paid when you go strike, and it's nearly Christmas...

Agreed.Thatchers children have been brainwashed into thinking like this,being grateful for a few crumbs from the rich mans table.
In fact any modern society that cant provide a proper standard of work for its people is in need of a very radical overhaul.Bring it on.

Been in a similar situation myself hindle.
Just a note it may have been covered but have you considered that your current company are actually paying you for what you are giving them. I dont mean that your a slacker or anything lol I mean because you loose 6 weeks through training.
eg if your doing a job that other people are getting £24,000 a year to be doing but your only earning £22,000 for the same job. But your doing the training course for 6weeks a year then your actually getting paid for the time your spending in work. Your hourly rate will work out the same as the rate of people doing the same thing for 24grand a year but dont go to collage.
I had a similar discussion at review time with my employer, how come people who I can do more than and work harder than are earning more money than I am. Simple answer: 36 days out of the year that Im not here, they are.

It would explain why these other companies would offer you the position on a the higher salery but then refused once you requested about working for that money but missing 6weeks of work. 6 weeks is a long time when you look at it anually.
The good news is that once you complete the training then they'll have no excuse and many other places will be more than happy to take you on the higher wage packet.

EDIT: If someone can understand what it is I've written here can they re-write it so it makes sense to everyone. I cant think of how to word it better but it may be quite helpful to Hindle if he hasnt already considered it himself.

[Gazza77]

I bet you would struggle to find anyone that doesn't think they should get paid more for what they do, deserving cases or not.

There are a number of options open to anyone in the situation though.

1. Quit and get a job elsewhere.
2. Go on strike/work to rule, etc.
3. Do nothing other than moan how unfair life is.
4. Try and argue your case more strongly with your boss.

Everyone will have their own opinion as to which is the best course of action there.

[timwilky]

I work in IT, 24 years with my current employer. The management will always pay what they can get away with. a few years ago the company was effectively bust and had to be bailed out by a foreign government. Huge global redundancy program,restructuring and I had to tell a dozen staff they no longer had jobs.

As a result of the restructuring I no longer have a management role, however I kept my car and have since had it renewed. But my salary is being held back, I am lucky to see inflation rises. for 3 years I got no pay increase.

They know I will not leave, 24 years invested in the pension scheme. They can treat me how they want, I just say thank you and take the monthly insult.

Simple rule I have seen with plenty of my peers when I was chasing bucks. Line up a new job and resign. I had a principle of counter offer first time and then accept the letter second time.

Druid do you work for BT? sounds bang on the same set up as my dad is on.

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by timwilky

I work in IT, 24 years with my current employer. The management will always pay what they can get away with. a few years ago the company was effectively bust and had to be bailed out by a foreign government. Huge global redundancy program,restructuring and I had to tell a dozen staff they no longer had jobs.

As a result of the restructuring I no longer have a management role, however I kept my car and have since had it renewed. But my salary is being held back, I am lucky to see inflation rises. for 3 years I got no pay increase.

They know I will not leave, 24 years invested in the pension scheme. They can treat me how they want, I just say thank you and take the monthly insult.

Simple rule I have seen with plenty of my peers when I was chasing bucks. Line up a new job and resign. I had a principle of counter offer first time and then accept the letter second time.

bugger I thought pension schemes could be transferred to a new employer