The Org Scottish Referendum

[carelesschucca]

I've got a fiver on a recount.

ah well there goes yer fiver!

[BanannaMan]

I've got a fiver that says not a lot of sleeping going on in Scotland tonight.

[carelesschucca]

hope your not betting on me. first result in and I'm away to bed. some of us have work tomorrow.

[BanannaMan]

I said not a lot of sleep (as opposed to no sleep) and it's 2:00 AM.
If you have to be at work in the morning that's not going to be a lot of sleep.*
;)




* unless you are an insomniac like me.

[MisterTommyH]

5/5 in....

http://megahdwallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/union-jack-flying-in-air-1080-hd.jpg

[L3nny]

Not looking good for the yes camp so far, only 2 out of 16 councils voting yes.

[BanannaMan]

496,256 votes NO (54.93%), 407,140 votes YES (45.07%)

Looks closer if you look at actual vote totals.

Still a lot of votes yet to be counted.

[L3nny]

Yep, Glasgow and Edinburgh will probably make a big difference when they come in.

[BanannaMan]

Yep, Glasgow and Edinburgh will probably make a big difference when they come in.



Seems to be following all predictions so far.
It'll take an upset in one of the larger cities for 'yes' to win.

[L3nny]

Or not, seems to be going exactly as expected

[Bibio]

congratulations to NO. well done the population of Scotland, now live with it.

[L3nny]

So where does Salmond go from here then? Gotta resign surely?

[The Basket]

Now....

What shall we talk about...

[L3nny]

Now....

What shall we talk about...

Motorbikes?

[orose]

I must admit, I've stayed out of this thread because it's none of my business what Scots decide to do with their country. What I do hope is that people are happy now that they've had their say, and that you don't let it turn you into another Quebec, constantly trying to break free. Salmonds latest thing about voting No "at this stage" needs to be snuffed out in no uncertain terms, I'm afraid.

[Fordward]

Well done the people of Scotland - You are not leaving the UK, but you are LEADING the UK - You've triggered the biggest political change the UK has ever seen.

So where does Salmond go from here then? Gotta resign surely?

I hope so.

[Fordward]

Salmonds latest thing about voting No "at this stage" needs to be snuffed out in no uncertain terms, I'm afraid.

LOL, talk about a self denouncement. I think he's probably right that it's No "at this stage". I don't think that 10% of Scots voted Yes because they are pro-Union, they voted Yes because Salmond had no credible plan to make it happen and was lying to them, so under the circumstances where there is no clear roadmap it's too big a risk to take "at this stage".

This has been a vote of lack of confidence in Salmond.

Now what if Salmonds replacement takes 10 years to come up with a credible plan, that those 10% of voters have confidence in? Then it might have been 55% yes. So shouldn't the people of Scotland be asked again?

[andrewsmith]

Now....

What shall we talk about...
Boobs!!!!

[Wideboy]

I don't think this thread can finish without a picture alex salmonella's face receiving the results.

I cant find one, it must be genuine.

[Spank86]

Now what if Salmonds replacement takes 10 years to come up with a credible plan, that those 10% of voters have confidence in? Then it might have been 55% yes. So shouldn't the people of Scotland be asked again?
no.

You cant just keep spending UK money on vote after vote.

The yes campaign got all the advantages, they named the question and the timing of the vote and got told No.

That's it for a generation as far as I'm concerned.

[pookie]

at least they got a referendum as opposed to the rest of us that get sold on them but nothing happens!
Well done Scotland, you had a choice and used your vote.

[daveyrach]

14374

[daveyrach]

no.

You cant just keep spending UK money on vote after vote.

The yes campaign got all the advantages, they named the question and the timing of the vote and got told No.

That's it for a generation as far as I'm concerned.

^ This, UNITED we stand!

[ClunkintheUK]

So shouldn't the people of Scotland be asked again?

Why? surely time, money and effort would be better spent making the current situation work. The referendum was a single straight forward question, the answer was 'No', no 'No, but ask me again in a few years'. Both the Yes and No campaign ran something along the lines of "This is your only chance, whatever you say will stand, not just for you but for generations"

[daveyrach]

14375

[Fordward]

The referendum was a single straight forward question"

It was indeed. "Should Scotland be an independant country?".

And in my opinion the answer to that question is Yes, but I'd still have put No on the ballot paper last night, because Yes would have set Salmonds plan in motion and left the Scots powerless to stop it until a whole load of irreversable economic damage had already been done.

Just because it's a straight forward question, that doesn't mean it's a straight forward answer.

It's Salmond who has screwed up this opportunity for Scotland.

[TamSV]

So who's read Cameron's speech this morning?

It will be interesting to see what actually develops but we could be looking at a big shake up in how the whole of the UK is governed. A big change that many people would like to see but which absolutely no-one has voted for. :)

[Spank86]

Anyone know what the actual turnout was over all?

[TamSV]

Just short of 85%

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/results

[ClunkintheUK]

It was indeed. "Should Scotland be an independant country?".

And in my opinion the answer to that question is Yes, but I'd still have put No on the ballot paper last night, because Yes would have set Salmonds plan in motion and left the Scots powerless to stop it until a whole load of irreversable economic damage had already been done.

Just because it's a straight forward question, that doesn't mean it's a straight forward answer.

It's Salmond who has screwed up this opportunity for Scotland.

Wouldn't a yes just have meant Scotland became a separate democratic (I assume) country? It might have set his plan in motion, but I am pretty sure, you'd have to have an election within a couple of years of full independence. It was also the Scots who voted him into the position to get teh referendum and set the plan in the first place.

And I agree it is not a straight forward answer, which, to me, means that you cannot keep second guessing what other people's motive is behind their vote. I believe around 3.5 million people voted in the referendum, that probably means there were at least 3.5 million reasons behind them.

[Spank86]

Just short of 85%

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/results

pretty good but wasn't 86% the record?

[TamSV]

pretty good but wasn't 86% the record?

I'm not sure. I think Sky News said it was a new record.

[Bibio]

the best thing Scotland can do now is dissolve Holyrood. it was either full Independence or nothing. within 3 years Westminster will force tax revenue powers upon Holyrood and when this is done they will start cutting funding and Scotland will be told to make up the shortfall. Holyrood will have no option but to increase taxation on the Scottish public to keep a level of services we are accustomed to.

more power... ermm no. we now need less power and no more Holyrood which would make us fully part of the union again. from last night i get the feeling that this will be spread across the whole of the uk and devolved powers for each region with tax rasing powers for each of them to look after their own affairs. congratulations Scotland you have just feked it for everyone.

so thank you the no voters and i hope that you get everything you hoped for.

[carelesschucca]

Why is this an issue. If Scotland is already generating enough tax revenue like we've been told by the SNP we'll be fine. In fact the future is rosy if we're looking after ourselves, utopian society with all the benefits of being in a big population but having localised power.

Bring it on ;)

[daveyrach]

Optimistic aren't we?

Correct me if I am wrong but Holyrood already has the power to adjust income tax on scots by +/- 3p (set to increase to 10p in 2016). In theory your 'powers that be' could increase income tax for Scots up to 23p while the rest of the UK stays at 20p.

Also at the moment how exactly is it fair that Scottish MP's can vote in Parliament on English issues that will not affect the Scottish electorate but English MP's cannot vote on Scottish issues?

The Scots keep banging on about how they have a Tory govt they didn't vote in but I didn't vote for the current govt either but I'm not crying about it and calling for my town to have devolved powers I'm just getting on with it, I used my vote and my party didn't win, it may be different next time.

Scotland does much better out of the Union than anyone else bar Northern Ireland, you get £10,800 per head whereas England gets £8,600 per head, England gets the least out of the 4 countries. Maybe we should have an independance vote?

[Spank86]

congratulations Scotland you have just feked it for everyone.
Not at all, it's looking pretty rosy in the south east.

Even in a worst case scenario I cant see the devolved powers getting more than 50% of revenues and the rest being distributed centrally.

The poorer parts of the country need to be subsidised by the richer.

[TamSV]

Salmond has resigned.

[dizzyblonde]

Salmond has been pushed.




Edited for you :p

[Spank86]

Sources close to holyrood report Alex Salmond as saying "If you're not going to pick me, I'm taking my ball and going home"

[The Basket]

Listening to the ranting of sore Yes voters.
What sweet music they make.
If Scotland can't handle devo max then what in all that's holy do you think for one nanosecond they could handle independence?
Unsurprised Salmond has gone. Yes voters will hate him for losing and no voters will just hate him

[Amadeus]

What a nasty, bitter little bully he is.

[Bibio]

the yes voters are sore and the no voters are gloating, ermm nothing new there.

i dont think that it will just be income tax raising powers that will be given, yes Scotland will be fine, that is until the oil runs out. by the time that happens Scotland will more than likley be so devolved that we would be as well being independent but the problem i see is that Scotland will not have had a chance to build an economy in the mean time.

i can see the future for Scotland being...
by by NHS
by by free prescriptions
by by free tuition fees
hello higher taxes across the board with no revenue from duty
hello a mass exodus of the population

i hope for the good of the Scottish population i'm wrong. i also hope for the good of the rest of the UK that what will happen to Scotland in the near future will not happen to the rest of the UK.

[pookie]

There cant be any more of an exodus.. there are more people watch that strictly on a saturday night than those who voted ;)
Hopefully I'm not around when the oil runs out , its not just scotland thats going to suffer!

I'm sure the yes voters would be gloating too had they won and equally the no voters sore but atleast you got a say!
Now wheres that EU referendum? ABW t shirts ?

[Teejayexc]

Welcome to the rest of the UK, with one rather big amendment to your post...





i can see the future for Scotland being...
by by NHS
by by free prescriptions
by by free tuition fees
hello higher taxes across the board with no revenue from duty
hello a mass influx of population

[Biker Biggles]

I think No will win.
Oh bu&&er.Too late.

[The Basket]

I just thought. The whole yes campaign was a cult.
You had a supreme leader. Everything he said was 100% correct. Any supporting documentation was 100% correct.
Even if it was complete baloney it was 100% true if it is endorsed by the leader.
Any critiscm was verboten. Any contrary views or documentation was 100% garbage regardless of source. If the leader says it regardless of evidence of facts then the facts are wrong.
Even today, the victory was certain but Westminster has stolen the election. No proof but they stole it.
Yikes!

[littleoldman2]

Optimistic aren't we?

Correct me if I am wrong but Holyrood already has the power to adjust income tax on scots by +/- 3p (set to increase to 10p in 2016). In theory your 'powers that be' could increase income tax for Scots up to 23p while the rest of the UK stays at 20p.

Also at the moment how exactly is it fair that Scottish MP's can vote in Parliament on English issues that will not affect the Scottish electorate but English MP's cannot vote on Scottish issues?

The Scots keep banging on about how they have a Tory govt they didn't vote in but I didn't vote for the current govt either but I'm not crying about it and calling for my town to have devolved powers I'm just getting on with it, I used my vote and my party didn't win, it may be different next time.

Scotland does much better out of the Union than anyone else bar Northern Ireland, you get £10,800 per head whereas England gets £8,600 per head, England gets the least out of the 4 countries. Maybe we should have an independance vote?

Today I was at breakfast with 8 English people, we have been together for 15 days, not once during that time was the referendum spoken about. The hotel proprietor announced the result and they all groaned. I think a given a choice most of the population would vote Yes for an independent England.

[munkygunn182]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86lrybeUXIg

Live stream from George Square. Welcome to Glasgow...

[Spank86]

I just thought.
I just thought bye as in goodbye has an e in it.

I wondered what was bugging me about bibs post.

[Bibio]

yes yes i'm dyslexic and your point is?

[Spank86]

yes yes i'm dyslexic and your point is?
me too.

It's been bugging me for hours and i finally realised.

[Bibio]

would you like me to go and correct it? or like me are you cool that you understand what i'm trying to spell?

TBH witout a spell chacker im stuffed and would not be able to hold a conversation by tying to type, i'm ok with most words but its the simples ones that actually get me, just ask chucca about some of my texts. yes i'm wired up wrong :-)

:kiss:

[Spank86]

I'll live.

Now I know what's wrong I don't mind, it was knowing something was but not being able to put my finger on it that bugs me.

I can always tell when something's wrong but often now what, and then when I do write it correctly I've seen the wrong way so much even the right way looks wrong.

[Bibio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86lrybeUXIg

Live stream from George Square. Welcome to Glasgow...

my tiny brain cant comprehend that. this is the first time i have ever heard the Scottish sing Rule Britannia. it just sounds so wrong. i could be forgiven to think that maybe just maybe the Scottish are finally letting go of the animosity they feel towards their brethren south of the border. if so then thats one good thing to come out of the referendum and for that i will be forever thankful.

[Fordward]

Wouldn't a yes just have meant Scotland became a separate democratic (I assume) country? It might have set his plan in motion, but I am pretty sure, you'd have to have an election within a couple of years of full independence.

Salmond was timetabling completion of his plan by March 2016, quite deliberately as it would have been before the next election in May 2016.

Getting rid of Salmond at that stage would have been too late, damage would most likely have been done, likely outcomes for Scotland include

- using the pound unsecured without a currency union, and no control over the BoE, but then a second leadership changing currency a second time would have been too destabilising to bear

- Scotland kicked out of the EU, and taking somewhere between 7-10 years to reapply and meet membership requirements, with nothing a second leadership could do to speed it up

- borrowing a £billion a month, with no other means of a second leadership financing essential public services.

The second leadership would have had to inherit a whole load of problems, whereas Scottish Independance is something that would have to be done right first time or go bankrupt.

Many Scottish people probably wanted Independance, but couldn't allow Salmond to **** it up, and if they voted Yes they couldn't stop him ****ing it up, so they voted No.

And I agree it is not a straight forward answer, which, to me, means that you cannot keep second guessing what other people's motive is behind their vote. I believe around 3.5 million people voted in the referendum, that probably means there were at least 3.5 million reasons behind them

I can only tell you what proportion of my friends and family who voted no felt that way. And if a proportion of them felt the same, then its a fair assumtion that a proportion of the 3.5 million also felt the same. It was only a win for No by 10%, it wouldn't have taken many changes in peoples reasoning to have swung it to Yes.

[TamSV]

my tiny brain cant comprehend that. this is the first time i have ever heard the Scottish sing Rule Britannia. it just sounds so wrong.


You've not been to Ibrox then?

[carelesschucca]

my tiny brain cant comprehend that. this is the first time i have ever heard the Scottish sing Rule Britannia. it just sounds so wrong..


You should go to Ibrox. god dammit dean type and stop watching the tv or Tam will get his answer in before you ;)

[andrewsmith]

If I said I saddened and very very worried that it was a no vote.
Its going to be excuse to go and bend over Northern England even more to pay for all the London White Elephant projects

[Spank86]

You never know, you might get more control up there.

That's the way Cameron's talking,

[Fordward]

I'll live.

Now I know what's wrong I don't mind, it was knowing something was but not being able to put my finger on it that bugs me.

I can always tell when something's wrong but often now what, and then when I do write it correctly I've seen the wrong way so much even the right way looks wrong.

There are several forms of dsylexia you know, many people go thier whole lives without realising. Have you been tested?

[Spank86]

There are several forms of dsylexia you know, many people go thier whole lives without realising. Have you been tested?

Yes, I'm dyslexic.

I'm just pretty good at coping with it.

I found reading voraciously helped... Spell checkers helped more ;)

[andrewsmith]

You never know, you might get more control up there.

That's the way Cameron's talking,

Seeing we've been asking for over £1billion just to fix the crumbling networks that link North to South for the last decade I doubt it.

Projects knocked back in the North East (just what I can think of now)
- Upgrading of the A1 from Washington to Berwick to Dual or Motorway Specification
- Money to fix the bodges on the East Coast electrification

If they do give us power over money and budget this is what they need/ want to do
- Reopening of the old Heworth to Darlington Branch line and upgraded to HST specification to ease the biggest rail bottleneck in the UK (Durham to Newcastle)
- Major upgrades (beyond the £380 million already given) to the Tyne and wear metro to try and reduce congestion on the A1 and A19

This is the current funding bid (circa £600 million) and reinstatement of 2 historic rail lines

http://assets.capitalfm.com/2014/12/tyne-and-wear-metro-expansion-plan-1395749384.png

The full plan is around £1.2 billion (think the Manchester tram system upgrade over 4 counties

Edit: here is the rough concept and the report http://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/files/Metro%20Strategy%20Background%20document.pdf

https://colddogsoup.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/20130212-085211.jpg

[Spank86]

Somehow I doubt they'll release the money for capital projects of that nature.

I don;t disagree its necessary, call it HS3 perhaps.

[andrewsmith]

Somehow I doubt they'll release the money for capital projects of that nature.

I don;t disagree its necessary, call it HS3 perhaps.

More chance of That TBH

[Bibio]

You've not been to Ibrox then?

You should go to Ibrox. god dammit dean type and stop watching the tv or Tam will get his answer in before you ;)

ermmm football :rolleyes:

the only and last football game i was at i was 11 years old and it was between hearts and hibs at Easter Road. i was board to tears and as such i never went to another football match again.

[Bibio]

Alex Salmond is not liked because he is tenacious.

a lot of people seem to think that Salmond does not know what he is doing, where nothing could be further from the truth. Alex Salmond was RBS's chief economics adviser when the RBS was still a major player in the baking system. he was also responsable for creating the RBS oil index but my brain is a bit foggy there.

i'm saddened to see that he is resigning and i think the Scottish public are loosing one of the best people to fight for Scotland on the political podium. i personally think he genuinely cares for Scotland and its people.

[Heorot]

yes yes i'm dyslexic and your point is?

Calling yourself dyslexic is too often an excuse for laziness or stupidity.

[Spank86]

Just to clarify, that^ isn't MY point.

[Bibio]

Calling yourself dyslexic is too often an excuse for laziness or stupidity.

and that is usually the view of an ignorant coffin dodger. if you throw insults at people then expect some back.

i'll grant you i'm becoming lazy due to health, but stupid...... hhhmmmm

[andrewsmith]

Calling yourself dyslexic is too often an excuse for laziness or stupidity.
Don't go there
You'll loose this argument

[daveyrach]

Alex Salmond isn't liked because he is an arrogant, horrible little man who clearly just has a problem with the English. All along this was the Alex Salmond show!

I can't see Scotland lost anything like the NHS, free prescriptions and tuition fees etc, if anything you'll get more powers. You Scott already have it better I have to pay nearly £8 a month for my prescription med and I only have 1 atm. I also have to pay for my kids tuition fees, dunno what u lot are moaning about, you'll get your powers and everyone can stop whining.

[Spank86]

Don't go there
You'll loose this argument

I think it's already been loosed.

[scotty217]

22 years in the RAF as a RADAR and comms engineer, 3 years at University studying Diagnostic Radiography, 4 years as a radiographer constantly studying to keep current and to become a cardiac fluoroscopy specialist (that IS how you spell fluoroscopy) don't call me stupid because a smack in the teeth often offends!!!!

[kaivalagi]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/russia-calls-foul-scottish-referendum

Unfounded nonsense now fuelled by Yes voter sour grapes or something more credible?

[scotty217]

Straight out of the manual of cold war politics

[Bibio]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/russia-calls-foul-scottish-referendum

Unfounded nonsense now fuelled by Yes voter sour grapes or something more credible?
as a yes voter i'll even agree with that.

i'm not bitter, i'm disappointed. the people of Scotland have voiced their opinion by democratic means and its something i will have to live with.

[kaivalagi]

Yeah, time to move on with the decision made.

On Wednesday Fiji (my wife's home country and a place close to my heart) had it's first elections since a coup in 2006 and the guy that kicked off the coup and ran the country since then won the elections...to me that sucks and at first I couldn't believe people could forget what sort of things that man had done in the past but you gotta live with the electorates choice and the fact that the observers didn't raise any alarm bells either mutes rigging issues.....I am certainly feeling disappointed for my beloved Fiji though :(

[Spank86]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/russia-calls-foul-scottish-referendum

Unfounded nonsense now fuelled by Yes voter sour grapes or something more credible?

Just the Russians stirring up trouble.

If it was fixed then it was fixed in 30 different counting stations at once since almost every region voted no, and why leave it so close if you're fixing it. 60-40 would be better, plus why promise devolution?

[Bibio]

Alex Salmond isn't liked because he is an arrogant, horrible little man who clearly just has a problem with the English. All along this was the Alex Salmond show!

I can't see Scotland lost anything like the NHS, free prescriptions and tuition fees etc, if anything you'll get more powers. You Scott already have it better I have to pay nearly £8 a month for my prescription med and I only have 1 atm. I also have to pay for my kids tuition fees, dunno what u lot are moaning about, you'll get your powers and everyone can stop whining.

Dave thats your view about someone who i feel you have not met and judge them by what you read in newspapers and watch on TV. do you honestly think he would have got so far in his career if he was such a horrible person and so anti English.. i doubt it very much.

Scotland do all this by way of a fixed income without loans or any other means of income and that fixed income is going to be reduced, Scotland told to raise revenue by way of taxation to make up the shortfall. while all this is going on Westminster will be pumping the duty revenue raised by oil into the UK coffers for the good of the whole of the UK.

right now was make or break time for the future of Scotland and Salmond knew this. you have to remember that Salmond is an economist who has worked behind the scenes which makes him a very rare politician indeed. biased in his views, yes but i think he has the right to be so.


it was interesting to read that a survey was taken and a very high proportion of young (teen) voters voted yes. thats a big pluss in my book as the reforendum was not about the now it was about the future of Scotland to which these individuals would have had to get on with.

also interesting to note that almost all low unemployed populated areas came back with the highest votes for no, which shows that people were thinking about themselves and their job instead of the future of their country which was not helped by very last minute threats thrown out by the media.



it's done its gone Scotland cant go back so we will ALL have to live with the repercussions that this referendum has brought. what happens to Scotland and how its run might just spread all over the UK so each region of the UK might just end up with block grants and told to raise the shortfall by way of taxation.

[pookie]

I'm sure thats the US and A route of local taxation. I admire the fact the scottish people have gone out and made their voices heard especially the 16- 17 year olds.
It comes as no surprise who they voted for as that was the intention when granting them the vote.

[Fordward]

Calling yourself dyslexic is too often an excuse for laziness or stupidity.

Woah! All the Bibio did was make a spelling mistake, I understood what he meant no problem. If you wouldn't say it to someones face don't put it on a forum please.

[kaivalagi]

I am a lazy f'ker and not dyslexic....does that help?

No body language in forums so it's hard to judge what someone really means, I'd say take it as banter :)

[The Basket]

45?
Wrong.
It was 44.7%
The 45 are giving themselves 12500 more votes. And they talk about rigged! If you can't do basic math then don't bother.
Salmond say I was tricked. No I wasn't. Not even close.

[kaivalagi]

I'm seriously considering removing some friends off my FB friends list who keep going on about it all, the ones that now have 45 avatars and post loads of rubbish....they need to learn to let the f##k go!

[The Basket]

It is nothing short of an absolute disgrace.
Alex Salmond is an absolute disgrace.
Salmond said that one solitary winning vote was a mandate.
How about 10,6% of the vote? Isn't that a winning mandate?
Salmond has basically said 2,001,989 Scottish voters are stupid.
Salmond....you have neither the decency or the wit to realise when you lost.

[MisterTommyH]

I think you're being a little hard on him.

Come on.... He's simply not used to the fact that when you promise something it's then normal to go and put some meat on the bones of the promise so that you can, you know, follow though..... And answer questions and stuff....

[The Basket]

Not harsh enough.
Salmon's only promised one thing.
Anarchy.
And by the grace of God, we dodged it.

[MisterTommyH]

Surely the intended irony wasn't hidden that deeply....

[The Basket]

Irony?
Problem is the whole yes campaign was such a complete and utter joke that I have no radar anymore for comments.

I take them at face value because they actually believe.
Its like X-files. I wouldn't be surprised if some prize eejit is saying aliens and the CIA stole the referendum to stop Alex Salmond finding Atlantis.
On 2nd thoughts, that actually not the craziest comment I've heard from the Yessirs.

[Spank86]

Woah! All the Bibio did was make a spelling mistake, I understood what he meant no problem. If you wouldn't say it to someones face don't put it on a forum please.

Don't ask the GM about the stuff I say to peoples faces. The forum has a U rating so they wouldn't be able to answer.

[Matt-EUC]

Don't ask the GM about the stuff I say to peoples faces. The forum has a U rating so they wouldn't be able to answer.


I can confirm this.

He's a mean and horrible human being.

But it's only a bit of banter and it's really quite funny once you understand that he's not really a complete ****.

[Spank86]

No, I am.

[Bibio]

Basket, why are you condemning Mr Salmond about a policy the SNP was founded on. the SNP has and always will campaign for the independence of Scotland no matter who their leader is. they just happened to gain the overall majority of seats in the Scottish Parliament which gave them the power in Scotland to fulfil their party policy and set into motion what they have and always will campaign for.

if you have the time and can be bothered to learn about Scottish politics then please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament where you might just learn that it was Labour who paved the way by creating a devolved Scottish parliament which in turn by chance happened to pave the way for the recent election for the independence of Scotland.

until such times as the disbanding of country's in the United Kingdom and the creation of 'insert new country' then i'm afraid to say there will always be bickering between them as each one will always have it's best interests at heart.

so Basket please dont shoot the messenger.

[Fordward]

No, I am.

Sorry horrible you were the quickest to say

Just to clarify, that^ isn't MY point.

;)

[SvNewbie]

I posted this on Facebook, but I thought some of you who I'm not friends with may find it interesting.

A rough guide to being a despondent yes supporter.

Over the past few days I've been frankly discussed as some of the vile comments from my friends who dearly believe that Scottish Independence was the right thing for the future of Scotland. This is my honest attempt to guide some of that wasted energy, name calling and finger pointing down a path that could conceivably lead to an Independent Scotland.

Act 1: Was the vote fair.

Yes. Britain is the oldest democracy in the world, if we can't have a fair referendum then frankly the concept doesn't exist, and if that's the case then there is little point fretting about it.

To address some of the 'tin foil hat' brigade (here's looking at you Dad), I'm not going to repost the video but I'm sure you've all seen it (Search for SCOTLAND INDEPENDENCE VOTE RIGGING EXPOSED if you haven't).

It shows 3 distinct video's supposedly showing voting being rigged. The first one is the 'indecisive lady'. She moves votes several times between the Yes and No piles. Frankly, there are hundreds of reasons she could be doing this, perhaps she got distracted and thought she put something in the wrong pile (who hasn't done that?), perhaps she forgot to check the serial numbers for votes undergoing criminal investigation or perhaps she was dealing with votes which were marked and was trying to decide whether these marks broke the rule about leaving personally identifiable marks.

The second is a table marked No which clearly has votes with Yes ticked. Since the Yes campaign themselves have explained this I'm not going to give it any more airtime.
The final video is a man sitting at a desk writing on some paper. My guess is that he's signing some kind of check sheet. Who knows what he's actually doing, but even if you assume that he's furiously filling out No votes, without being spotted by any of the other count staff or observers, how many votes could have have filed out, around 3000 assuming he's doing one every 10 seconds and does that for 8 hours straight.

The fact is a Yes / No vote where the only thing that mattered is the final tally of votes is hardest type of vote to rig. It's not like other votes where a few thousand carefully placed votes could mean an extra seat.

Frankly continuing to pretend that the vote was rigged does a great disservice to those people who gave their time and effort to provide a timely and accurate count. A large proportion of them likely to be yes supporters themselves!

If you're still not convinced then perhaps you might consider signing up to being an count observer at the upcoming General Election. You only need to fill in a form and provide proof of ID.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/upcoming-elections-and-referendums/observing-elections-and-referendums

Act II: What to do next.

There is a general election coming up in 6 months time. The Liberal Democrats currently hold 11 Scottish seats in the House of Commons, assuming they are likely to be punished for forming a coalition with the Conservatives and with the feelings from the referendum running high SNP surely look good to take a handful of them. Traditional Labour heartland is also up for grabs, if as many of you turn out and vote SNP in Glasgow as did for the referendum then it's an easy victory for them.

The first and most important thing is to make sure you vote. If you truly want independence then you're probably going to want to go with the candidate on the paper who has the SNP logo next to their name.

If you want to be a little more thorough I'd suggest looking into the voting history of the person you are voting to represent you in the British Parliament. How often do they turn up to vote? How did they vote on issues that you feel strongly about?

Act III: But I want to do more.

Why not join the SNP and volunteer to spend some of your time campaigning on their behalf?

http://www.snp.org/join

The coverage of the referendum was clearly one sided. This is unfortunately a result of the media being owned by large corporations with a vested interest in keeping things the way they are. Other than trying to start your own newspaper (not recommended) there are a few things you can do.

Firstly, vote with your money, if you still buy a paper then make sure it's one which you feel gave adequate coverage to both sides of the debate. Even if you don't why not get a subscription to the Sunday Herald (who supported independence). Their online subscription is only a quid a week.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/subscription

If you truly feel that the BBC coverage misrepresented the facts then send them a letter (a real postal letter shows more commitment but an email will do) explaining the issues in your own words and demanding that they act more impartially in the future. Don't bother sending them a letter someone else wrote or a page of abuse, it won't achieve anything. You could also consider sending one to your MP.

Act IV: Stop alienating 'no' voters.

Assuming levels of support for the SNP continue to grow then it's a waiting game for another referendum. This isn't going to be tomorrow or next year, but it will come around again, as long as people keep demanding it.

Therefore you need to find a way of convincing more than 10% of the people who voted No this time round that voting Yes next time is in the best interests of the Scottish people.

Stop calling them names. People are likely to become far more entrenched in there current mindset if you continue to call them small minded selfish ****ebags. You need to heal the divide between Yes and No supporters not deepen it.

People, especially the older generation, have a lot to lose if Scottish Independence goes wrong. People with mortgages and pensions to consider. Some of these people might not have been around for long enough to enjoy the spoils even if things went according to plan, so stop vilifying them.

The posts I've seen from Yes supporters following the result make the No campaign look like it was drafted by happy go lucky dream fairies. Talk about being negative and scaremongering, parliament haven't even been in session since the vote, can you wait to see what actually comes of the negotiation before you condemn it? Oh and by the way, if they truly try to back out of extra powers don't you think the backlash would help the Independence cause anyway? Calm down for minute.

[The Basket]

interesting points SVNewbie.
Most of them are wrong.
But I dont care anymore.
And this is the last post I write because WE WON!!!!!!!!

There is no need for further comment.

Apart that I have a huge smile on my face.

Hee hee.

Peace out y'all.

[SvNewbie]

interesting points SVNewbie.
Most of them are wrong.


That's rather inflammatory if you're not actually going to point out the bits you disagree with.

[andrewsmith]

At this point this needs to be posted

http://austrianeconomists.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451eb0069e2011570ea5170970c-pi

[punyXpress]

Why you got my picture on that?

[JulesW]

The Union remains intact, hoorah!