Has anyone had their card cloned?

Hi all,
I'm after some advice please: The other week my sister checked her online bank account & realised there was £200 missing.
She phoned up the bank & found some unauthorised transactions had been made, 2 card swipe transactions in Hammersmith one morning & 3 ATM withdrawels in Ghana (as in Africa) in the afternoon, & she has never been to Ghana.
She has left it in the hands of the banks security/fraud department, thinking it was all going to be sorted but today she got this letter:



Is there anything she can do? The card has obviously been cloned as there was a physical copy on another continent???

Thanks in advance for any help of advice.

Gaz

[squirrel_hunter]

First thing is to cancel the card.

Next write back saying that you are unsatisfied with their response and request that it is looked at again. I take it that you have the times of the transactions, if so find out the travel time from Hammersmith to Ghana chances are it won't be possible to do without some serious help from a particular Dr.

This looks like a standard letter that is sent by the bank every time there is a fraud 'investigation' they will look up that the PIN was used and thats it. But if you kick up enough fuss it should normally get resolved correctly.

I do have to take issue with their claim that the Chip cannot be cloned. Unfortunately it can. Chances are though it has been skimmed at an ATM, hence the swipes and ATM usage of the fraud.

Dont forget to mention to them that they are now making her out to be a liar... and that they are now accusing her of comitting fraud by claiming the amounts werent her spending...

that ought to make then re think what they are saying,

Whilst the pin might have been used they are far from fool proof, send copies of pass port proving she hasnt been to Ghana either...

be as factual as you can but also be hard in the letter... banks dont care about customers these days ... imho...

[Viney]

Yes. Never had an issue. Canceld card, got the money refunded. Easy peasy.

Get it sorted then move banks.

Cant see letter as im at work.

that reply from the bank is really bad all the money they make and when you need their help they dont want to know? i'd go in there today and close all accounts with them, cant you get intouch with the banking ombudsman?

Yes -twisting git in the local petrol station was scanning them under the counter. They got cards ffrom two differnt accounts

Ours were all done in Thailand where you don't need a pin no. Is Ghana the same?

However, both banks paid up in full and had already suspended the account beore we even knew there was a problem.

Can your sister prove wher she was at the time the transactions were being made? Might help beat the bank into submission.

Good Luck

This happened to me with both my current account and credit card at the same time, both had withdrawls from canada and london with about 5 minutes of each other so obviously a clone. no problems in getting the money back from either (woolwich and virgin credit card). Just had to fill out a dispute form. What you gotta remember is you've given them YOUR money to look after and they've lost it, not you...

[northwind]

From the banking code, to which your bank subscribes:

Liability for losses

12.11

If you act fraudulently, you will be responsible for all
losses on your account. If you act without reasonable
care, and this causes losses, you may be responsible
for them. (This may apply if you do not follow section
12.5 or you do not keep to your account’s terms and
conditions.)

12.12

Unless we can show that you have acted fraudulently
or without reasonable care, your liability for the misuse
of your card will be limited as follows.
• If someone else uses your card, before you tell us it
has been lost or stolen or that someone else knows
your PIN, the most you will have to pay is £50.
• If someone else uses your card details without your
permission, and your card has not been lost or
stolen, you will not have to pay anything.
• If someone else uses your card details without your
permission for a transaction where the cardholder
does not need to be present, you will not have to
pay anything.

The only way they can get round this is if they can show you to have acted either fraudulently or without reasonable care.

They can't dispute that a pin can be obtained despite you taking reasonable care- phreaking or camera devices can both do that without you being aware of it, even if you take reasonable care (concealed devices on or near an ATM frinstance. Here you can totally contradict them, they've stated without qualification that it's your responsibility to protect the pin- just not the case. That's good news for you, their letter simply contradicts the banking code.

So, they have to accuse you of either giving up the pin- which they can't prove- or committing fraud- which you haven't done.

In short, get it up ye Santander. But, it's a while since I worked in fraud prevention, it's possible there's stuff like Ombudsman cases that I'm not aware of, so don't take me as the letter of the law. If it was me, I'd go back to them with a formal complaint and raise the banking code issue, test the water- see if they're willing to make a fight of it or if this is just the usual opportunistic bank c***.

I recently had a problem with a BP station where I was charged £48.50 for a single transaction, 21 minutes after my original transaction went through and I left the petrol station. After MUCH (2 months) faffing around, I eventually got BP to look into it and they eventually found out that after I had left, someone filled up with fuel and drove off without paying. So in all of the till persons infinite wisdom, they decided to manually charge it to my card because they apparently "panicked".

What the hell is the point of chip and pin if they allow this to happen????

Biggest crock of **** to date.

Sorry to hear of your problems gazman. I asked my bank about the problem and they told me they couldnt help me full stop due to the fact it was a maestro card and not a visa. Went to another branch and they were actualy concerned, told me to get a criminal reference number and then give that to the bank and they WOULD get my money back. Perhaps worth visiting a different branch.

Thanks for all the replies so far guys & girls,

It’s nice to read these encouraging posts. My sis was in tears, first of loosing £200 quid & then made to feel like a lying fraudster. She’s only a student & studying to be an accountant, so £200 is a lot of money to her & she’s worried it could have implications on her chosen career.

Now there’s an update: she popped in to the local branch & while she was there she phoned up the office to get it sorted, they’ve now admitted that the card use in Ghana WAS NOT a chip & pin type even though the letter clearly states it was & implies that my sis was committing fraud? They said they are now going to reinvestigate & she should hear from them in a week’s time, but my sis is still £200 down at the moment & has to deal with all the hassle & worry for even longer. I’ve told her to make a complaint about the lady who has wrote/signed her name against the slanderous letter that’s full of lies.

Banks are ****ing me off at the moment they have to be some of the most greedy money grabbing companies out there, in the last 2 months I’ve had three £25 banks charges automatically taken out of my account, when I rang up each time they admitted that an error had been made but I still had to wait til the end of the month before any dosh would be refunded.

They are quick to grab peoples money at the slightest opportunity but it’s completely the other way round when the make a **** up with your money. They’re quite happy to slap a bank charge on us but I wonder what they would say if anyone turned around & said they was gonna charge the bank for a **** up they’ve made?

Thanks again.

Gaz