The Megathread -twiddle yr fingers here

[robh539]

this isn't a marvel comic world is it ;) superman ooo scary batman? haha

[HoL]

In that case I may be in trouble

[robh539]

:smt046 i think you will be fine.

[HoL]

Physically yeah but I now realise how stupid I look in my lycra outfit

[Fruity-ya-ya]

Like i do at the gym.:eek:

[HoL]

Thats one way to motivate yourself

[Wideboy]

I'm back, found a charger huzzaahh

[Fruity-ya-ya]

I'm back, found a charger huzzaahh

Huzzaahh!

[HoL]

farp

[Wideboy]

So how we all doing

[Wideboy]

Oi get off my laptop Helen

[Fruity-ya-ya]

Got soup for dinner/lunch but not the nice kind. Saving my eating muscles for the curry and beer this evening ;)

[hindle8907]

good WB i iz very good today time is dragging today, out with the ladz tonight to wet my mates babies head.
Pishuuuppppp !!

[Fruity-ya-ya]

Oi get off my laptop Helen







So how we all doing

This hurt my head.

[HoL]

Whats nice soup? whats not nice soup?


Wideboys gone schitso

[minimorecambe]

Oi get off my laptop Helen

But mine is smashed :(

[Wideboy]

good WB i iz very good today time is dragging today, out with the ladz tonight to wet my mates babies head.
Pishuuuppppp !! woo buy me a drink please, I'm off to the gym for 2 hours lifting and then bed, that's how rock and roll I am

This hurt my head.

Helen smashed her laptop on my head so now uses mine

[Fruity-ya-ya]

Whats nice soup? whats not nice soup?

Aldi's own mushroom crudasoup.

Tbf the B.E.S.T. I had for breakfast was filling enough but i'm on till 5 do thought i better have a bite/slurp.

Back to work. Be good.

[HoL]

Aldi's own mushroom crudasoup.

:smt078 (haha hadn't seen that smiley before)

B.E.S.T.


Bacon Egg Sausage Tomato? jealous!

[Wideboy]

Well done hol, more people have left now

[minimorecambe]

Time for work for me :(

[HoL]

Well done hol, more people have left now

was it the sicky smiley?

[hindle8907]

woo buy me a drink please, I'm off to the gym for 2 hours lifting and then bed, that's how rock and roll

Lifting for two hours is pointless for max muscle gain just do a more intense workout for 45-60 minutes.
Then do 30 minutes carido instead.

2 hours is well over training.

[Reeder]

Don't bother with the carido either :-P Do 4-5 sets of 5-8 reps for muscle building.

[Wideboy]

I do 6km on rowers before I start lifting, then 3 sets of 10 on all muscles

[hindle8907]

weight traning and carido go hand in hand.
doin 1 without the other is counter productive.

[Wideboy]

I was told to do cardio after lifting but I do it before as warm up

[Reeder]

Extended periods of carido are proven to decrease muscle size, so therefore are counter productive. You need to be doing tabata :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training

Change your sets to 4 sets of 8. 5-8 is the optimum repetitions for muscle building.

[Wideboy]

I think you two should fight

[HoL]

It's very violent on here today isn't it?

[Wideboy]

Shut up hol

[hindle8907]

Its a well known fact that doing cardio everyday is the most important thing you can do for your health (http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/PhysicalActivity/GettingActive/Get-Informed-Get-Empowered-and-Get-Active_UCM_305117_SubHomePage.jsp#recommended) but lets assume you don’t care about your health, lets talk about gaining muscle. I know you are used to hearing that “cardio burns muscle” but I’m going to show you why that’s wrong. Cardio does NOT hurt your ability to gain muscle at all and it might even HELP you to ADD muscle mass.
The reason that cardio has gotten a bad reputation for burning muscle is that most often, people couple drastic diets with cardio in their effort to “cut” after “bulking” – its why I hate the whole bulking and cutting (http://scoobysworkshop.com/bulkingAndCutting.htm) mentality. ) Its the drastic caloric reduction that is responsible for the muscle loss, not the cardio! If you don’t consume enough protein and enough calories, your body will cannibalize your muscles – a good safe limit is not to reduce your calories by more than 20% below your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure), to find a muscle-safe caloric intake for dieting please use my calorie calculator (http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/).Proper nutrition (http://scoobysworkshop.com/nutrition.htm) while dieting is key to insuring you don’t lose muscle mass. You can lose weight with an all-twinkie diet (http://scoobysworkshop.com/fad-diets/)but you will lose lots of muscle at the same time!
So cardio doesn’t burn muscle, but how might it help you GAIN muscle? – Lets look at THREE ways:


DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (http://scoobysworkshop.com/NoPainNoGain.htm)) is a common result of intense workouts and doing 20-30min of daily cardio increases circulation and the increased nutrient flow by the muscle helps the muscles rebuild faster.
Not every workout plan has 5 minutes rest between sets, some workouts you will need to do to build mass are very taxing to your cardiovascular system. If you don’t constantly work to keep your cardiovascular system running at peak performance there are workouts you just wont be able to do with sufficient intensity to gain mass.
There are intense weight workouts that double as cardio workouts and these go by several names - hybrid workouts (http://www.elitefts.com/documents/fat_strong.htm), complexes (http://www.askscooby.com/excellent-postings/complexes-for-weight-loss-and-overall-conditioning/), etc – and they all have one thing in common, they take compound weightlifting exercises and do them repeatedly for cardio – often as intervals. These hybrid workouts can build muscle and give you a cardio workout at the same time!


Cardio does not burn muscle mass, crash diets and bad nutrition burn muscle mass! 20-40min cardio every day is not only good for your health but it can help you add muscle as well.
There are some situations where muscle gets burned, lets look at those in depth so you can avoid them.


If its the only energy source available, your body will burn muscle to survive. Fat is our bodies energy storage device, our gas tank that enables us to survive when food is scarce. If you haven’t eaten anything AND your bodyfat is dangerously low, then your body has no choice than to burn muscle in order to get the necessary energy to keep you warm and alive. What does your body consider dangerously low bodyfat, for males probably 3-5%. In this low bodyfat situation, your body will burn muscle to provide the energy to keep you alive. Very few of us have bodyfat low enough that we have to worry about this! A very small percent of the population is perpetually skinny (under 3% bodyfat), that is, no matter how much they stuff their face, they cant add an ounce of fat. For these people, they have enough trouble consuming enough calories to survive – doing cardio would burn muscle.
If you are not consuming enough protein your body will burn muscle, this is often the case in crash diets. “Essential Amino Acids” are called essential for a reason, your must eat them in sufficient quantities or your body has no choice other than to cannibalize your muscles to get them. When people reduce their caloric intake more than 20% below their TDEE, it is *very* difficult to get enough of these essential amino acids with the protein you eat. Even when you don’t lift weights, your body needs daily protein to replace the muscle cells which have died. If you don’t eat enough protein, the muscle cells don’t get replaced. If you are doing a crash diet, then doing cardio will increase the muscle loss. DONT DO CRASH DIETS! If you want to know what you can safely cut your caloric intake to, use my calorie calculator (http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/).

How Much Cardio Is Too Much?

So 20-40 minutes of cardio a day is good for you and helps you gain muscle, is more cardio better? What I have found with my own personal experience, is that there are four issues that crop up and hinder muscular gains when you do too much cardio:


Short term fatigue. If you play an intense game of soccer or basketball and workout right afterward, you will have a lousy workout and your muscular development will suffer. Your body can only take so much and if you are exhausted from running all over the field, there is no way you can put enough intensity into your workout to make gains. However, if you wait 4-6 hours to recuperate before lifting weights, you weight workout will be just as aggressive and successful as if you hadn’t done the cardio.
Total exhaustion, cardio till you drop. Depending on your conditioning and intensity level, after 3-16 hours you will just konk out. If you have ever done endurance sports, you know exactly what total exhaustion feels like. For me, doing an olympic length triathlon which is about 3hrs of intense cardio puts me on the edge – 4 hours would definitely put me in the total exhaustion category. For my long distance cycling trips, because the intensity is much lower I can go 12-14 hours before reaching total exhaustion. Once you reach total exhaustion, any weight workout you attempt will not be successful. Not only will you be too tired to aggressively push the weights but after the workout, your body will be too busy repairing itself from the brutal cardio session to be able to build up your muscles.
Repetitive motion injuries. Often its not the cardio itself that’s the problem, it’s the injuries. Do anything for more than 4 hours and you are asking for repetitive motion injuries, doesn’t matter if its running, rowing, swimming or cycling. Once your joints are in pain, any possibility of muscle mass gaining weight workouts go out the window.
Overtraining (http://scoobysworkshop.com/overtraining.htm). This is the biggie. If you get too much cardio, the major muscle which has provided your locomotion is essentially doing a mega-rep, low weight workout. If you do 6 hours of squats, you will suffer from severe overtraining and lose both strength and muscle mass. Likewise, if you do two marathons a day you will lose leg mass which leads us to this amazing study ..

Now I know that some of you are STILL worried about cardio burning muscle so lets look at a great study (1 (http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/30/lessons-from-ultra-endurance-runners/),2 (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Running-Reduces-Visceral-Fat-169202.shtml),3 (http://www.medicexchange.com/news/2010/11/mobile-mri-proved-well-tracking-down-body-responses-of-endurance-runners/))where they monitored body composition of athletes in the trans-europe run where they ran 2800 miles in 64 days – that’s an average 43 miles a day. The results were really interesting and not what you might expect. Obviously they lost fat and lots of it. The interesting part was that the runners didn’t lose ANY muscle mass in their upper bodies, ALL the mass was lost in their legs – why? Overtraining (http://scoobysworkshop.com/overtraining.htm)!!!. So if these athletes can run 43 miles (6 hours) every day all summer long without losing any upper body muscle mass, certainly YOU can jog for 30 minutes without losing muscle mass!
Remember, your body is really smart and it wont burn muscle unless you do something really stupid like running 3000 miles or doing a drastic fad diet.

[hindle8907]

with the right diet - carido + weight lifting = better gains.

[HoL]

Wideboy read above post as punishment for being rude.

Hindle, only joking thats fascinating!

[Reeder]

Totally contradictory that is.
It won't burn muscle, but it will? lol. At the end of the day if you're trying to gain muscle and bulk up all cardio is doing is wasting precious calories. Admitedly it's good for your health but it's not going to help your muscle gains. I'm happy to agree to disagree.

[Wideboy]

Ok hol


Everyone's training would be different. I'm 6'3 and 16.5 stone so my training methods would be completely different to yours reedz.

[anna]

Morning all, I know its been a while since I said hello here.. but read this....

Totally contradictory that is.
It won't burn muscle, but it will? lol. At the end of the day if you're trying to gain muscle and bulk up all cardio is doing is wasting precious calories. Admitedly it's good for your health but it's not going to help your muscle gains. I'm happy to agree to disagree.

and had to pop in for a chat.

Reeder, I disagree with your statement there. Cardio doesnt burn muscle unless you are not fuelling your body correctly in the first place. If you are eating right then cardio will burn your fat, allowing you to reduce your overall body fat and see the muscle gains clearer.

Hi everyone else.

[hindle8907]

Taylor your diet to your training regime and you wont be wasting anything.
The guy makes sense in my eyes, go on his website and have a look around.
Lots of things I thought to be true ended up being false or scrambled information.
The guy puts 100's of hours into his videos and information he hates people that try to make money from the sport by false advertising products and supplements.
Definitely worth a browse.
Check his bod out as well for a 50 year old hahah hes a beast. I didnt think he was natural but after spending a few days on his website you can see how much dedication he puts in to the sport and I'm happy to use his information over most other peoples.

[hindle8907]

hi anna - you hit the nail on the head there

[Wideboy]

Yeah reeder so how about yuou stfu, before you get taken downtown mmm hmmn

[anna]

Hey guys, - I didnt mean to be mean to Reeder there honest, just that weight loss and training is something that can get really confusing with a lot of mixed messages about.

[Reeder]

Its been shown in several studies that long cardio sessions cause muscle tissue loss as measured by cross sectional area of a muscle. More specifically, it causes a loss of circumference in type IIA fibres and type IIB fibres. Type II muscle fibre types are also known as fast twitch fibres and are responsible for 'high force' movements associated with anaerobic exercise such as strength training.
Consequently, long cardio sessions result in less type II muscle fibres. Less type II fibres equal less strength.


BLAH BLAH BLAH :-P Like I said, lets agree to disagree.

[anna]

Reeder, if you are training cardio with a HRM and keeping within the set limits you wont burn muscle only fat.

[Reeder]

Regardless Gav is probably the strongest out of all of us without doing weight training anyway haha. I'm only 5ft 9 :)

I still love you Anna.

[hindle8907]

OK mate if you want to leave it there then we will but, if you want Definition one day you will have to come back to this topic and clear up the bits of false information. ;)

[anna]

Regardless Gav is probably the strongest out of all of us without doing weight training anyway haha. I'm only 5ft 9 :)

I still love you Anna.

awwww chucks xx

Anyway......... how are well all in the land of the .org?

[Wideboy]

Reader your a man mountain don't be silly xxxx

[Reeder]

Gavin want's to gain mass, not get defined :-P

[hindle8907]

Regardless Gav is probably the strongest out of all of us without doing weight training anyway haha. I'm only 5ft 9 :)



yeah true, I'm new to weight training been doing it for 3 months now, had to stop though over the past 3 weeks as i have injured my wrist.
I hate not working out.

[hindle8907]

I'm 5ft9 too weight 13.3 at the moment, was 14.4 around 7 weeks ago :) but while losing body fat (by doing carido) I'm still putting on muscle.

[Wideboy]

I been doing it for about 2 and a half months and only starting to notice some build now

[Reeder]

I was 11 stone 7 and I'm now 12 stone 9... without cardio and putting on muscle :) haha this could go on and on.

[andrewsmith]

meh

Friday

[hindle8907]

I was 11 stone 7 and I'm now 12 stone 9... without cardio and putting on muscle :smile: haha this could go on and on.

But you was a dweeb who needed to get bigger.
But you still could have done this with carido and the right diet.
Bulking and cutting isnt the way forward.
A Tailored diet with the right carido/weight training ratio would be a better way of doing things.

Lets leave it there now hahah

Hello Andy !

[Reeder]

I'd personally say putting on a stone in muscle in 8 months isn't a bad job :)

[andrewsmith]

But you was a dweeb who needed to get bigger.
But you still could have done this with carido and the right diet.
Bulking and cutting isnt the way forward.
A Tailored diet with the right carido/weight training ratio would be a better way of doing things.

Lets leave it there now hahah

Hello Andy !

He means eat more pies and drink more brown beer!!

U ok Ant?

[anna]

I would say it is pretty good going Reeder.

[robh539]

am back :) ..... somebody mention pies and brown beer?? mmmm

thats not bad reeder.

[Reeder]

Im going to eat biscuits now :) Hi rob.

Thanks anna darling xxxxx

[robh539]

i want a meat and potato pie now.

hows the websurfing goig reeder? done much work?

[Wideboy]

i am home now, had enough of work

[hindle8907]

I'd personally say putting on a stone in muscle in 8 months isn't a bad job :)

nope that sounds like good going to me m8

[Wideboy]

i think it sounds crap

[hindle8907]

i think it sounds crap

:smt027

[Bibio]

howdidoodi beefcakes. am i still allowed in here?

[hindle8907]

yes ;)

[Bibio]

''bragging rights'' i have gone from a 42'' waist and 17 stone to a 32/34'' waist and 10.5 stone in 1 year :-)

just thought i would share.

i'm also suffering badly from man flu and its pizzing me off :-(

[Wideboy]

hi bibalonion!

[Wideboy]

some mp points on there way to you ant

[Reeder]

''bragging rights'' i have gone from a 42'' waist and 17 stone to a 32/34'' waist and 10.5 stone in 1 year :-)

just thought i would share.

i'm also suffering badly from man flu and its pizzing me off :-(

Bloody good job sir!
Booooo man flu

[Geodude]

''bragging rights'' i have gone from a 42'' waist and 17 stone to a 32/34'' waist and 10.5 stone in 1 year :-)

just thought i would share.

i'm also suffering badly from man flu and its pizzing me off :-(

Very well done sir :D

[andrewsmith]

''bragging rights'' i have gone from a 42'' waist and 17 stone to a 32/34'' waist and 10.5 stone in 1 year :-)

just thought i would share.

i'm also suffering badly from man flu and its pizzing me off :-(

Well done stranger!!!
Man Flu or Flu flu?

[minimorecambe]

Finished work finally :)

[andrewsmith]

hellooo MM!!

You ok?

[Bibio]

not flu but bad cold and sleepy.. dry lips and snotty snot :-(

[andrewsmith]

Uber man flu

I'm just joking about Haddington in the GM thread, unless you fancy trying and booking the circuit

[Fruity-ya-ya]

Got soup for dinner/lunch but not the nice kind. Saving my eating muscles for the curry and beer this evening ;)

Awesome curry. Brandy post beer session. Ended up crashed out in a mates spare room. What more can i say.:D

Ps the naans were one foot square!

[Reeder]

Yay!

[hindle8907]

not felt this ruff in a long time.

[Fruity-ya-ya]

not felt this ruff in a long time.
LOL i had a kiddies party to got to, dance and generally not look hungover.
:nomore:

[andrewsmith]

*burp*





Looks round for anyone else




*bbbbbbbaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrppppppppppppppp ppp ppppppppffffffffttttttttttttttttttbbbbbbbbbrrrrrra aaaaaappppp*

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH thats better

[Fruity-ya-ya]

*burp*





Looks round for anyone else




*bbbbbbbaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrppppppppppppppp ppp ppppppppffffffffttttttttttttttttttbbbbbbbbbrrrrrra aaaaaappppp*

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH thats better

I heard that from all the way over hear!

[andrewsmith]

What corner were you in???

[Fruity-ya-ya]

I wasn't. Seriously loud. I heard it over the Mrs and her mate watching the X factor final.

[andrewsmith]

Now you know you want to ;)

loud and to 12 on the speakers

http://www.fart-sounds.net/fart_sound_board_2.htm

[Fruity-ya-ya]

Lol, that matches the curried emanations floating about post night out Friday.

Giving blood in the morning, Just hope it doesn't come out like madrass sauce!

[andrewsmith]

haha

or Brandy

[Fruity-ya-ya]

haha

or Brandy

Been watered down with larger, sausage rolls and jelly this afternoon at a kiddies party ;)

[andrewsmith]

lol

Wish I could afford to drink this beer all night (£4.50 a pint :()

http://brooklynbrewery.com/brooklyn-beers/perennial-brews/brooklyn-lager

[Fruity-ya-ya]

lol

Wish I could afford to drink this beer all night (£4.50 a pint :()

http://brooklynbrewery.com/brooklyn-beers/perennial-brews/brooklyn-lager

WTFlip!

Homebrew cider should be ready next week, if it tastes okay I'll care package you some ;)

[andrewsmith]

WTFlip!

Homebrew cider should be ready next week, if it tastes okay I'll care package you some ;)

Eh? :confused:

Sweet!!!
Did you ever get the turbo Ginger beer to work?

[andrewsmith]

I need to stop viewing the wierd and wonderful. I'm trying to work out how I got from Swede Mason to this :p

http://youtu.be/FavUpD_IjVY

FavUpD_IjVY

[Fruity-ya-ya]

Eh? :confused:

Sweet!!!
Did you ever get the turbo Ginger beer to work?

Tasted like poop. Next time I will follow the recipe closely.

Seriously, if it's okay I'll pm you and post a bottle.

[andrewsmith]

Please do FYY

Wish I had the space for homebrew

[Fruity-ya-ya]

Please do FYY

Wish I had the space for homebrew

Gonna try a sip now ;)

[andrewsmith]

to numb the pain of the x craptor

[Fruity-ya-ya]

to numb the pain of the x craptor

I tried a ginger cider recipie and it's 'ready' next week. Tried some and i think it's 'not terrible'. As such pm me where to post a bottle and I'll send asome for you to try (depending on the postage);)

[andrewsmith]

PM winging it way to you!

[andrewsmith]

FYY

It can't be as bad as the Hereford cider I last tried. Kicked my head in

[Fruity-ya-ya]

It's quite gingery. I'll not be offended if you don't like it, thought I'd make you suffer it as i've made 40 pints of it!